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Author Topic:   A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 35 of 175 (790285)
08-29-2016 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-29-2016 3:42 AM


End Times?
wish I could be so optimistic, but I am haunted by the beliefs that I adopted which said that in the so-called End Times people would reject organized religion and embrace just this sort of philosophy. A character known as the AntiChrist would then come to power and cause living hell for 7 years or so before Jesus came back and took names...correcting the evil attempt at dominance. Im not sure exactly what I believe regarding end times any more.

I'm also not sure what to expect but more and more Christians are expecting some kind of worldwide political manifestation soon that is thought of as a Final Act before Jesus returns. But it's not a nonreligious system, it's a religion that will present itself as Christianity though also incorporating most of the religions of the world, and most of the world will consider it to be Christianity. The whole idea of an Antichrist doesn't make sense unless he puts himself in the place of Christ and heads up a religion in Christ's name. (My favorite for the position is the Pope.)

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 3:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2016 7:16 AM Faith has responded
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 06-21-2017 1:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 37 of 175 (790291)
08-29-2016 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Tangle
08-29-2016 7:16 AM


Re: End Times?
I'm also not sure what to expect but more and more Christians are expecting some kind of worldwide political manifestation soon that is thought of as a Final Act before Jesus returns

Nope factually wrong yet again.

I wonder how many Christian ministries you keep tabs on, from which you get emails and news reports and that sort of thing? Not very many I'd guess, but these are my source of the impression that there is a striking increase in the expectation among Christians that we are witnessing the beginning of the End Times. Ever since I became a believer in the late 80s there has been a fair amount of end times talk among Christians, but that's increased enormously over about the last decade. Ministries that don't usually have much to say about it are now talking about it.

ABE: I've actually heard some of the big-name preachers on the radio giving sermons on how to live under the sort of persecution that would be faced in the End Times, and though you may think this is standard fare I can assure you it is not, it's quite startling to be hearing such messages. /abe

But perhaps I'm missing what you think is my factual error? Please enlighten.

Christians have been saying this since the crucifiction. Never happened, never will.

Ah, that old canard. Oh well.

Now there are fewer Christians and, of those, fewer fundies believing daft things like that. You're a dwinding minority.

That could be, but this dwindling minority does seem to be more strongly than ever convinced the Grand Finale is rapidly approaching. I've even heard reports that it's not just Christians who have this sense of something big coming. However, as I said, there's been buzz on the subject ever since I became a believer, so even though it appears to be increasing and spreading, it could be some time before it's realized.

If it waits too long of course I'll have to give up on my idea that this Pope is going to be the Antichrist. He's already up there in years. But there's a neverending supply of Popes. It's just that this one is such a good candidate, the very first Jesuit, very ecumenical and aggressive about including everybody under the wing of the RCC, and arguably even more popular than John Paul.

I wonder if the Humanists will embrace him? He's so willing to embrace everybody, including humanists and atheists and probably even Satanists, that's quite possible.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2016 7:16 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2016 9:51 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 39 of 175 (790304)
08-29-2016 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tangle
08-29-2016 9:51 AM


Re: End Times?
1. The absolute and relative decline of Christianity
2. The absolute and relative decline of biblical fundamentalism amongst Christians
3. The abject failure of all prior predictions of end-times.

I don't know if there's truth in what you say about the decline or it's just your wishful thinking. I know Christianity has just about disappeared in Europe and the UK, but that's a limited frame of reference since it's growing in China and other parts of the world. However, assuming you are right it makes an interesting bit of evidence FOR The end times, because what has to happen for all that to play out is for all the fake forms of Christianity to get united together in the One World Religion headed by the Antichrist, leaving only a "remnant" of true believers.

The failure of prior predictions is a really weird one, since rather than proving the prophecies wrong it just brings us closer to their fulfillment. The Jews were looking for the appearance of the Messiah for some time too, misidentifying various characters who presented themselves, and when the true Messiah came some recognized Him but many didn't. I think we'll have a similar situation as the end times unfold. Many are going to miss it the way so many missed getting on the ark and got swept away in the Flood.

Do I really need to provide you with numbers? You are hearing more because you want to hear it. When you buy a new car you start to see them everywhere. It's all very obvious stuff. You have no sense of history or perspective.

I think you are the one who fails at that but be that as it may, my "new car" is getting awfully old for your notion to hold up. Instead of an increase in awareness of the end times I should be seeing a decrease if your analogy to the car made any sense.

Is there any way to fit this into the topic or is it hopelessly lost?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2016 9:51 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 44 of 175 (790366)
08-29-2016 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
08-29-2016 12:12 PM


Re: End Times?
How odd to think the End Timers stand to benefit in any way from the End Times. The basic idea is that the world will be run by fallen humanity, though calling itself Christianity, and everybody is going to love the Antichrist -- except the real Christians -- he's going to be very popular, offer the world all those solutions to problems found in the Humanist Manifestoes, along with some good old time pagan religion, very likely complete with some pretty fancy witchcraft to dazzle and bemuse. Until he brings back the Inquisition and the Holocaust and all the other murderous programs of the various isms we've seen over the last century, all of which may be part of the great tribulation that is supposed to begin about midway through his seven-year reign. By the time all that gets going you may not like him very much either. "The world" should love and worship him during the honeymoon period though. But my point was that we fundies will be his first victims.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 08-29-2016 12:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 97 of 175 (813816)
06-30-2017 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
06-30-2017 9:27 PM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Trust jar to be sure we have lots of wolves in the hen house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 06-30-2017 9:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 07-01-2017 7:20 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 100 of 175 (813829)
07-01-2017 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
07-01-2017 7:20 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Yes, stupidest thing ever since Islam wants to rule the world, and Satanism is inimical to all sane culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 07-01-2017 7:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 07-01-2017 8:51 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 103 by jar, posted 07-01-2017 9:34 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 105 of 175 (813846)
07-01-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
07-01-2017 9:34 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
It's a stupid law of the land if it allows freedom to openly totalitarian murderous "religions."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 07-01-2017 9:34 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 114 of 175 (866797)
11-16-2019 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by PaulK
11-16-2019 4:39 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Talking about me behind my back? Such fine debate form there. Not to mention the **** about me.

Everything I say about Christian belief is based on the *****, including the Moral Law of God. And you are ***** about what I've said about gays since I have explicitly objected to "discrimination against gays" as my argument is ALWAYS about gay marriage only and not about gays as such. Gay marriage violates the Biblical definition of marriage as between a man and a woman.

Of course Christians are to obey all the secular laws, EXCEPT WHEN THEY CONFLICT WITH GOD'S LAW.

Your post reminds me an awful lot of the way the Democrats are trying to impeach Trump, just by making up stuff they call impeachable though it isn't. Maybe this is becoming the method of choice for the **** on every topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 4:39 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 7:41 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 116 of 175 (866800)
11-16-2019 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by PaulK
11-16-2019 7:41 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Where did I talk about you on my blog? It would have been years ago if I did and I have no idea what you are talking about. It wouldn't have been a *** either.

You are not allowed to redefine what I say. Objecting to gay marriage and refusing to serve it is not about gays as such, who are to be treated exactly as everyone else is and I've neer said anything different. MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION that is not for gays, period. YOU DO NOT GET TO REDEFINE THIS.

I **** that I did what I did? WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

And what doesw sin have to do with anything? They are making up impeachable doings thaqt are not impeachable. They are ***** and ***** and ***** and ***** and *****, all to get Trump out of office strictly because they don't **** him, the tens of millions of us who voted for him don't matter.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 7:41 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 8:11 AM Faith has responded
 Message 119 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 8:13 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 117 of 175 (866802)
11-16-2019 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by PaulK
11-16-2019 7:41 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Sin? Now we are accusing fellow debaters of sin? Now sin is a debate issue? I'm wrong about gay marriage because of my sin? And Trump is being impeached for sin? No wonder the world is going to Hell. With this kind of *****fingerpointing going on maybe we ARE in the very last days.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 7:41 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 120 of 175 (866805)
11-16-2019 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by PaulK
11-16-2019 8:13 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
What did I say about you on my blog? I know it wasn't a *** because I don't ***, but I don't remember it. Is that why you've been so unbelievably nasty to me all these years?

Stop ***** about me. There is no discrimination against gays as such, they are not barred from anything anyone else may enjoy. Marriage is not for gays.

Stop ***** about me. I support Trump for his policies, for objecting to abortion, for wanting orderly legal immigration, for wanting a wall at our souther bordern, for improving the economy, putting millions to work, taking them off food stamps, above all and primarily for loving America and putting American interests above all others. He has done nothing wrong in all the ****'s attempts to hang something on him. He did nothing wrong in the phone call, and he'd already been exonerated of any wrongdoinjg by the Mueller report: no collusion, no obstruction of justice, Now they are trying to find something else. Everythign they find is something they invent to be something it isn't. They call it impeachable but it's not. Oh they may impeach him anyway and get away with it but all that means is that America is dead.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by PaulK, posted 11-16-2019 8:13 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 121 of 175 (866806)
11-16-2019 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by jar
11-16-2019 8:11 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
The state's definition of marriage is ********** when there is a definition given by God, and it's God's Christians are obliged to honor: marriage is beteween one man and one woman, period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 8:11 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 9:44 AM Faith has responded
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 11:01 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 125 of 175 (866824)
11-16-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by jar
11-16-2019 9:44 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
It's no longer a free country so I'm not allowed to obey God over the state, which means I'll obey God if I'm put in the position to choose, and take my punishment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 9:44 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 11:47 AM Faith has not yet responded
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 126 of 175 (866825)
11-16-2019 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by ringo
11-16-2019 11:01 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his ****** and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 11:01 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 11:40 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 128 of 175 (866829)
11-16-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by ringo
11-16-2019 11:40 AM


Re: Humanist Clout vs Theocratic Clout
I didn't say they OBEYED the law, I merely stated the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 11:40 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 11:51 AM Faith has responded
 Message 133 by AZPaul3, posted 11-16-2019 5:53 PM Faith has responded

  
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