Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 71 (9014 total)
40 online now:
Tangle, vimesey (2 members, 38 visitors)
Newest Member: Ashles
Upcoming Birthdays: Raphael
Post Volume: Total: 882,028 Year: 13,776/23,288 Month: 294/412 Week: 81/40 Day: 11/19 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Introduction
Stile
Member
Posts: 4007
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 5 of 31 (790001)
08-23-2016 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Riggamortis
08-23-2016 12:54 AM


I feel like doing a whole lot of quotes. So here you go!

Riggamortis writes:

Hello EvC!

Hi Riggamortis.

I probably should have done this to begin with, anyhow. I have been reading here sporadically for several years, so I know quite a bit about most of the views you guys have discussed. You know next to nothing about me, so here's a bit of background.

Don't worry about it. Around here, the more the merrier. Have fun!

I am 28 years old, live in Tasmania and work as an engineer.

I'm 37, Canada and also an engineer.

I am married with a 10yr old step-son and a 7 month old baby boy.

No kids for me, and that's the way I like it!

I rejected super natural explanations at the age of 12 when a priest was brought in to teach scripture at school. I remember thinking something along the lines of 'Santa all over again'. The night of the first scripture class I asked my mother to write me a note excusing me from attending in future. She refused, but I had already made up my mind.

Ha ha. I grew up in a Catholic household. I also had neighbours who were Baptist Christians. I ended up going to both churches for a while as the Baptists were good friends and their dad was the Pastor there and I hung out with them a lot. I got an up close look at the differences and similarities between two variances of religion. It became clear to me pretty fast what was important and what was "extra."

I am left concluding that social interaction, unity and feeling a part of something bigger, are the real sources of human spiritual experience

I would say that social interaction, unity and feeling a part of something bigger are *A* source of human spiritual experience.
If you can prove to me that they are the *ONLY* ones... then I'll change my mind

But I certainly agree with the idea.
If you focus on God because He's full of love and goodness and all that... why not cut out the middle-man? Why not simply focus on love and goodness and all that? Without the extra attachment, focusing on love and goodness is more direct and can produce much greater results for a full life... for me, anyway. To me, God is just another weight dragging me away from focusing on the parts of reality that are actually important and full of good-ness.

By accepting a particular dogma, people are limiting themselves spiritually rather than opening up, in my opinion.

For the most part, I agree.
However, I would say that there's at least someone out there that actually receives great, genuine human spiritual experiences from following dogma. A true soldier who finds great comfort in following orders and "knowing" that those orders are always good and perfect even if they don't understand them.

Not me.
But maybe someone

Spiritual experiences are not limited to religion unless you define them as such.

I would say that spiritual experiences are not limited to *anything* unless you define them as such.

It follows then, that humans should be able to have spiritual experiences absent religion.

Fully agreed.
I would also point out that some folks will receive their greatest spiritual experiences from religion, though.
It's up to all of us to do some personal soul-searching and figure out what works best for us.

Sex with someone with whom you share a deep emotional connection is as spiritually fulfilling, probably more so, than loving any deity.

For some, yes.
For others, no.

My opinion is to be honest about such things. Allow others to be honest about such things.
If you find the greatest spiritual experience from sex, good on you! Have lots of sex!
If you find the greatest spiritual experience from religion, good on you! Have lots of religion!

As long as we're not hurting others (proper consent between adults for sex and religion and anything else...), I don't see a problem with allowing people to individually figure such things out on their own, and making sure we can all group up with like-minded individuals (or not) as we each see fit.

The idea is that each person is an individual. We all have the same basic "right" to find what works best for us and how to get along with the rest of society. I think we should all have to work, in some way, to contribute to that society. But in our free time, I wouldn't put any restrictions on anyone at all (other than not hurting others...). Want to have sex? Find other people who also want sex, go nuts! Want to focus on religions or anything else? Find other people who want the same thing and also go nuts!

It's about realising that gods cause division and setting them aside for practical reasons.

The problem here is that you're doing the same thing.

Pushy, overbearing religious-people will say that they have it right, and you're doing it wrong.
By definitively saying "gods cause division..." you're being pushy and overbearing and saying you have it right and others are doing it wrong.

My opinion is that no one "has is right" because there is no "right."
There is a "right for Stile" and a "right for Riggamortis" and a "right for Phat" and a "right" for every individual on earth (in the universe?)

I'm sure there's a way to worship gods in such a way that does not cause division, that allows for others to make their own choices, that rejoices instead of shys-away-from other people not believing and receiving spiritual experiences from elsewhere.

While we can't agree that prayer and fasting will help the impoverished, surely we can agree that sending resources and engineers to build infrastructure will. It may not have all the answers to our problems, but putting aside our differences and coming together to get behind the things we can agree on is surely the first step toward a better future.

I do agree that actually doing things to help is much better than praying for help

I don't see humanity as having a special or ultimate purpose.

Collectively? No, me neither. I don't think it logically works with the word "purpose."
"Purpose" is subjective, therefore, it's logically individually-related... therefore, there can't possibly be some "grand purpose" that *EVERYONE* agrees with, perfectly. It's just not the way humans work.

I believe our self-imposed purpose should be to colonize space.

Nice!

My self-imposed purpose is to make life as comfortable/fun/good as possible for my family and friends I care about most.

(Colonizing space) requires that we reform our system to one that puts sustainability before profit, we must use our remaining resources wisely to ensure we can survive long enough to develop the technology we need to colonise space.

Although I have no personal desire to colonize space, I fully agree with your plans of sustainability before profit and using resources wisely.

Sorry if this is jumbled, I wrote it on my phone while the boss wasn't looking at work so that's my worldview in a nutshell.. Critique away!

Sounds pretty good to me.
As you know, there's lots to discuss about around here. Enjoy your stay and have fun!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Riggamortis, posted 08-23-2016 12:54 AM Riggamortis has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Riggamortis, posted 08-24-2016 9:53 AM Stile has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4007
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 13 of 31 (790040)
08-24-2016 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Riggamortis
08-24-2016 9:53 AM


Ha ha, no worries Riggamortis.

Don't worry about me, I usually end up wording things in a more heavy-handed way than I intend as well.
The points I raised were mostly raised just to make sure they weren't being ignored. Not trying to imply that you are, indeed, ignoring them.

Do you see a distinction between someone conditioned to have particular HSEs and someone seeking and fulfilling their own HSE?

Yes, of course.
And, in a general sense, I'm much more on the side of allowing everyone to seek and fulfill their own HSEs.

Just wanted to point out that if you "condition" enough people... you're bound to run into one who's "own HSE" was wanting to be conditioned anyway...

But I'm not a fan of conditioning people in the first place

I think you may be looking at it as a false dichotomy

I think I was just thinking of a slightly different context for the word 'purpose' than you intended. And then I caused some confusion.

why can't everyone have their own 'purpose' but we collectively set and agree on a 'goal' for humanity?

Sounds good to me.

Our current infinite growth goal is certain to end in catastrophe, however, so sitting back saying 'well I've got lots of freedom and stuff' is like humanity is the frog in the slowly heated water. Fuck that.

Fully agreed.
My current opinion on the matter is to deal with the issue instead of reducing the problem.

Problem: We're running out of recourses within our environment.
Suggested solution: Expand our environment so we can get more resources from elsewhere (space).

My issue with that is the problem still exists... waste and excess use of resources. We're just getting more resources in order to keep up our levels of waste and excess.

I'm on the side of mitigating ourselves first. Let's first learn how to control ourselves so we're not expanding at an unreasonable rate. I've never understood the desire to "always grow." Businesses... populations... seems like almost everyone thinks "growing is better" (the greed and all that you're mentioning). But why? What's wrong with reaching a point of comfort and then focusing on sustaining instead of growth?

Once we're able to use resources wisely and reduce our wastefulness... then I'm on board with controlled expansion. I'm fully behind things like eugenics and population control and things like that. Of course, there's a right way and a wrong way to do just about everything. And I'm certainly not saying that it's easier to do than going to space


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Riggamortis, posted 08-24-2016 9:53 AM Riggamortis has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Riggamortis, posted 08-25-2016 9:10 PM Stile has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020