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Author Topic:   Case against Kim Davis dismissed
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 33 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 91 of 103 (807830)
05-05-2017 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Chiroptera
05-05-2017 6:33 PM


Re: Reap what you sow
Thanks. That seemed to be in there somewhere.

There are already liberal denominations that not only accept gay marriage but have gay pastors. That's a terrible violation of scripture and it won't affect the conservative Bible churches.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32741
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 92 of 103 (807832)
05-05-2017 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
05-05-2017 8:09 PM


Re: Reap what you sow
Gay Pastors, Women Pastors, Gay Bishops, Women Bishops; all is right in the world.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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JonF
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Posts: 6159
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 93 of 103 (807833)
05-05-2017 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
05-05-2017 8:05 PM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Don't have one. The Supremes are always tricky to call, and with Korsuch there it's even more tricky than usual.

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Tangle
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Posts: 7831
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 94 of 103 (807849)
05-06-2017 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
05-05-2017 9:07 PM


Re: Reap what you sow
Jar writes:

Gay Pastors, Women Pastors, Gay Bishops, Women Bishops; all is right in the world.

Apart from the pastor bit.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 103 (807864)
05-06-2017 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by JonF
05-05-2017 9:56 PM


Supreme court?
Since this decision is just about whether Ermold and Moore (the plaintiffs) are entitled to have their suit heard in court to begin with, I'd think that the SCOTUS might wait until the actual case itself is heard and decided.

But I've thunk wrong before.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 96 of 103 (870897)
01-26-2020 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
05-05-2017 3:55 PM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Faith

I quoted an authoritative New Testament scholar who happens to be a Protestant preacher. The English translation of his German Mathew commentary was quoted.

He said remarried Christians are in violation of the New Testament but Protestants adopted the tolerant secular law as to make remarriage theologically and morally sound

You accept Luzs historical observation of Protestant theological doctrinal development or not. That was a question but I don't know how to get question key to work. Phone issues.

I just read a post on divorce we were discussing in the Catholic thread that is actively being used.

See our exchange there but please read my post 82 in this thread. I don't know what you think of the New Testament commands either. Your comments on Matthew chapter 5 verses 32 to 34 have never been presented.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 14338
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 97 of 103 (870903)
01-26-2020 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by LamarkNewAge
01-26-2020 3:51 AM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
LNA writes:

Look at the basic issue of divorce itself.

I have this book by a great scholar (he spends a lot of time on Aramaic and Greek words, and is respected on all sorts of textual critical and historical-critical issues), but he did something different. He looked at contemporary applications of scripture by various religious communities and spent a few pages (though a small percentage of his overall massive work which otherwise was more historically oriented like typical scholars).

The issue of divorce is confusing but it seems that the New Testament prohibition was compromised by protestants for reasons involving secular realities (and the church policies were essentially an attempt to match doctrine with secular law).

What's so wrong with Protestant Scholars? I would much rather have the issue raised by them than from a van down by the river full of illiterate drifters.
Stop and think. What makes a contemporary scholar less of an "authority" than an ancient scribe? Perhaps you may argue that the ancient scribe was in closer proximity to "the truth" but I would argue that the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead and which spurred the authorship of the Canons is every bit as alive and influential to those who have an ear to accept it, grasp the truth, and quit playing on as if being unbiased critical thinkers gives them any more of an insight into this eternal truth.

Obviously marriage should be sacred and declared permanent. Obviously divorce should not be an easy option. But in order to be a proper believer and Disciple of the living God, the option should remain open in extenuating circumstances.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18565
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 98 of 103 (870915)
01-26-2020 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Phat
01-26-2020 11:13 AM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Phat writes:

Obviously marriage should be sacred and declared permanent.


Nothing obvious about that.

Phat writes:

Obviously divorce should not be an easy option.


Nothing obvious about that.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2229
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 99 of 103 (870926)
01-26-2020 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Phat
01-26-2020 11:13 AM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Thugpreacha writes:

Obviously marriage should be sacred and declared permanent. Obviously divorce should not be an easy option.

Like in Iran?


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 33 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 100 of 103 (870929)
01-26-2020 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by anglagard
01-26-2020 2:26 PM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Forced marriage is not the subject.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 101 of 103 (870930)
01-26-2020 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Phat
01-26-2020 11:13 AM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Phat

I am going to have trouble with the response due to my inability to quote easily on my phone.

First

I felt the need to point out that Ulrich Luz was a Protestant preacher or else his admission to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church being faithful to the position of Jesus in Greek Gospel of Matthew WOULD BE misunderstood.

He was and is an authority on the New Testament regardless.

Second issue

I am going to prefer the folks OF ALL TIMES AND PLACES who respect the ancient scribes and accurately attempt to get to the actual intent of the scribes words and text. The modern scholar lacks proximity to the ancient scribe for sure but so do ALL LIVING HUMANS. Yes it does include us all. Church going Protestants included.

Third issue

The issue is not divorce alone. The big SIN is remarriage. There is also the question of whether non virgins will be regarded by Matthews Jesus as essentially the same thing morally as a previously married person. I wish there would be honesty about the morally sinful New Testament view of remarriage so the REAL debate can actually begin on the issue of fornication possibly being seen as an act that the New Testament sees as essentially the same thing as marriage and that would make most actual marriages as very much against the New Testament commands.

Afterthought I have to add. I don't mean to short circuit debate by saying that I strongly feel the New Testament is very much against remarriage theologically and morally when the relevant issue is discussed in the text.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2229
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(3)
Message 102 of 103 (871002)
01-27-2020 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
01-26-2020 2:35 PM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Faith writes:

Forced marriage is not the subject.

I know, I was referring to how difficult it is to obtain a divorce in Iran. Had this been written prior to 1995, I could have used Ireland.

You could read this: Iran's Family Protection Law.

Or you could watch this if reading is too difficult: A Separation. IMDB top 250 (#113) and currently on Netflix.

I realize my posts may be difficult to understand on the part of some members due to my unwarranted assumption they are as well informed on the topic at hand as I am.

Edited by anglagard, : {abe} Also, as the daughter points out, Isn't any marriage where divorce is difficult or impossible technically a forced marriage to some extent? {/abe}


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 103 of 103 (871016)
01-27-2020 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
01-26-2020 2:35 PM


Re: Secular law and religious policy on divorce itself is an example to look at Faith
Who besides you has mentioned forced marriage?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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