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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 822 of 892 (796978)
01-08-2017 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by Modulous
01-08-2017 7:35 PM


Evidence of Russia hacking
So is there any actual evidence being presented of Russia doing the hacking or are we just to accept it on faith that the CIA wouldn't lie? Cos I'm pretty suspicious of that lot, to say the least..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by Modulous, posted 01-08-2017 7:35 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2017 2:16 AM Riggamortis has not replied
 Message 824 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2017 4:08 AM Riggamortis has replied
 Message 826 by Modulous, posted 01-09-2017 7:41 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 827 of 892 (796986)
01-09-2017 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 824 by vimesey
01-09-2017 4:08 AM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Solid like the evidence of WMD in Iraq? It seems pretty clear to me that the US govt will release whatever information will serve their current agenda, in the case of WMD's, to justify a war. Thousands of US lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, a trillion dollars and a destabilised ME. And after all that? Turns out their evidence wasn't that solid.
Just sayin'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 824 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2017 4:08 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2017 8:54 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 830 of 892 (797019)
01-09-2017 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by vimesey
01-09-2017 8:54 AM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Just to clarify, I am not of the opinion that Russia had nothing to do with it, I was just curious about the evidence.
How is it stupid to lie about something when the evidence that you lied will be classified for decades? What consequences did those who lied about WMD have to face? From where I sit, it looks as though they lied through their teeth to get the war they wanted and then suffered no repercussions for any of it. That's evil genius, not stupid.
A couple of reasons for them to lie off the top of my head:
1. Distraction, instead of talking about their own corrupt politicians, Americans are talking about how the Russians tried to influence your elections. You don't want your plebeians losing faith in the plutocracy.
2. Public support for aggression against Russia in the Syria proxy war.
3. The threat of hacking by foreign govts would give the CIA a need for more funding to counter these threats.
Again, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other I'm just very sceptical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by vimesey, posted 01-09-2017 8:54 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
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Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 831 of 892 (797020)
01-09-2017 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Faith
01-09-2017 6:48 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
That is a good point, any decent hacker can cover their tracks pretty well. Especially so, you would think, of a trained intelligence agent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 6:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 9:44 PM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 866 of 892 (797076)
01-11-2017 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 859 by Taq
01-10-2017 4:14 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Perhaps the US could remove the beam from its own eye rather than pissing and moaning about Russia doing exactly what the US has been doing for decades? If meddling in another nations politics is a sin, then I suspect there's a special place in hell for the US.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 859 by Taq, posted 01-10-2017 4:14 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 869 by Taq, posted 01-11-2017 12:52 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 876 of 892 (797115)
01-11-2017 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by Taq
01-11-2017 12:52 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
That's a fair criticism, but for it to have weight we have to agree that Russia is behind the attack.
I disagree, the charge of hypocrisy stands so long as the accusation is being made and the US is kicking up a stink about it.
Until the allegation that the Russians have dirt on Trump with which they may manipulate him I couldn't really see a reason why it mattered who had done it. If true, that certainly is cause for concern. Having said that, Trump won the election after a leaked recording of him bragging about sexually assaulting women so I don't know that the video gives the Russians any real leverage over him.
I certainly agree that the Republican reaction to it all is very odd, it could just be that they don't want to be seen as having received help from Russia. They normally hate Russia don't they?
Both Russia and the US rolled around in the same global political pig sty for quite some time. None of us are clean nor should we pretend we are. However, at least we were both smart enough to have proxy governments battle it out in the past so we could both save face and avoid direct conflict.
I agree for the most part but using other countries as proxy battlegrounds is only smart from the US and Russia's perspective. From another perspective it's pretty bloody evil to go around using other countries and their people as cannon fodder for your economic proxy wars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 869 by Taq, posted 01-11-2017 12:52 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 877 by NoNukes, posted 01-11-2017 8:24 PM Riggamortis has replied
 Message 878 by Faith, posted 01-11-2017 8:58 PM Riggamortis has not replied
 Message 884 by Taq, posted 01-12-2017 10:45 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 881 of 892 (797121)
01-11-2017 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 877 by NoNukes
01-11-2017 8:24 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Folks ought to be able to have bad ideas, or even illegal ideas in practice as long as they don't put them into action. So the idea that the DNC had secrets that they wanted to keep is fine. Given that, releasing one sides secret plans without releasing the other's is inherently unfair, and if done by a foreign government trying to influence our elections is concerning.
I read a press release from Assange a while ago, I couldn't find it with a quick google though. In it he did say that Wikileaks didn't have any Trump/Republican dirt to release, otherwise they would have, so make of that what you will.
I'm guessing you were never a Bernie supporter? Even as an Australian I'm angry at the DNC for screwing him out of the nomination. Hillarys camp in the DNC did conspire with the media to keep Bernie from winning the nom. It wasn't just an idea. From the polls I've seen he certainly should have won it and would've likely beaten Trump in the primary too. Then you've got the Clinton Foundation scam, if she was taking donations in return for favours from her govt position, that constitutes treason, no?
Maybe the government has no reason to complain, but I sure as hell do. Particular when I've also been complaining about our own government's interference.
Of course, that's why I have been careful to charge the US with hypocrisy rather than Taq or any individual American. The main reason I responded to his post was that it gave me the (false) impression that he saw it as black and white, US is good, Russia is bad.
I don't give that dirt the least bit of credence. Beyond that, I doubt I could be more disgusted with Trump if that crap were correct.
If true, it's pretty gross and childish but nothing compared to what's already come out anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 877 by NoNukes, posted 01-11-2017 8:24 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 882 by NoNukes, posted 01-12-2017 1:08 AM Riggamortis has not replied
 Message 885 by Taq, posted 01-12-2017 10:54 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
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