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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 3 of 892 (792378)
10-08-2016 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tangle
10-08-2016 9:24 AM


But his supporters will continue to support him. There is a possibility that because he spoke this way about white women there may be some backlash, but I won't hold my breath.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 10-08-2016 9:24 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 23 of 892 (792490)
10-10-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
10-10-2016 4:47 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Looks like a simple paper describing strategies to combat any GOP candidate. The Clinton campaign is not responsible for Trump. Have the used the gift given them by the GOP? Of course. They would be negligent if they had not. But the GOP and its voters are the only ones responsible for Trump.
If you have more evidence for your conspiracy theory present it. If this is it than your argument is laughable.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 4:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 5:13 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 26 of 892 (792495)
10-10-2016 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by RAZD
10-10-2016 5:13 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well since you claim it exists how about showing it.
You mean the rampant evidence of collusion of CNN MSNBC an other media with the Clinton campaign? Where the DNC and Clinton aides wrote the news?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 5:13 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 10-11-2016 4:56 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 49 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:59 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 36 of 892 (792651)
10-12-2016 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 3:15 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Not trying to judge, but whomever was running that autopsy and making suggestions should probably be fired.
In actuality the suggestions were pretty good. The problem is the base fought against them and never would have supported them. A party that is the home of racists, anti-Semites, white nationalists and misogynists can never make the tent bigger.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 3:15 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 4:14 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 53 of 892 (792698)
10-13-2016 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:59 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
So you got nothing that backs you up. Just as I thought.
This election has shown me that the vast majority of people are not interested in the fact that our democracy is under siege by the 1% or dealing with social issues, they are much more interested in the behavior of football players.
Don't you dare act as if you know what I think or feel. Just because people don't agree with your conspiracy theories does not mean they do not understand the gravity of the issues in this country and presidential race.
Hillary is bought\colluding, the DNC is bought.
Do moneyed interests have excessive influence? Of course. You are making claims of bribery, but provide no support or evidence. Conspiracy theorism is ugly whether it is from the right or the left.
As always, your "holier than thou" attitude is off putting and offensive.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:59 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:26 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 67 of 892 (792911)
10-15-2016 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by RAZD
10-14-2016 11:26 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Those are opinion pieces. I have had great respect for Glen Greenwald in the past, but he can quickly cross over the line from objective reporting. Again, none of these pieces provide evidence of the collusion you claim.
Again you claim to know who I am and what I think. Alas, you still do not. Emails and accusations are not evidence for what you claim.
I was a very strong Bernie supporter, financially, emotionally and physically. I walked the walk. Alas, Bernie lost. It is time to move on.
There are issues about the DNC, huge issues. Now is not the time to address them. The release of the email has pointed out that reform of the party is needed. Burning the place down is not the answer

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:26 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by anglagard, posted 10-15-2016 6:14 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 76 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 9:24 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 78 of 892 (792945)
10-16-2016 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by RAZD
10-16-2016 9:24 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Stein is antiscience and panders to conspiracy theorists. Which seemingly would be appealing to you.
Jill Stein’s Anti-Science Pandering – Skepchick
quote:
Possibly her worst quality, though, is her pandering on vaccines. Stein is an actual medical doctor, so she should be well aware of the mountain of evidence we have that shows absolutely no link between vaccines and autism, no link between vaccines and any serious injury, and no problem with the current vaccine schedule. But when asked direct questions about her opinion on vaccines, she always waffles. Take her Reddit AMA, in which she answers a question about whether vaccines are dangerous by blathering on for several paragraphs about how people are right to be skeptical of Big Pharma influencing the FDA.
She talked around the issue again when interviewed for Newsweek, causing the interviewer to have to ask her twice to actually get a clear answer. When nailed down and asked for a direct answer to the question of if she believes vaccines cause autism, her best answer is I do not know of any evidence to that effect.
I actually do think Stein knows vaccines don’t cause autism, but she is so focused on not losing the support of people who do think that way that she refuses to be direct. This has never been shown more clearly than last month when musicianColin Meloy asked her on Twitter, Hey @DrJillStein, do you believe vaccines cause autism? Stein responded with There’s no evidence that vaccines cause autism. Let’s do more to support autistic people & their families, which is a great fucking answer! But that answer was quickly deleted, and replaced with a second Tweet reading, I’m not aware of evidence linking autism with vaccines. Let’s do more to support autistic people & their families.
All politicians may pander to some extent, but I can’t support someone who claims to be a radical revolutionary who doesn’t even have the courage to stand up for her own beliefs on an issue as important as this one. Even though she’ll never win an election, any politician pandering to anti-vaccination activists only makes them stronger.
There is no excuse for this pandering to the anti-science crowd. Or being on the same page as Trump when it comes to Russia.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 9:24 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 4:46 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 256 by dronestar, posted 11-04-2016 3:40 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 257 by dronestar, posted 11-04-2016 3:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 80 of 892 (792953)
10-16-2016 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by RAZD
10-16-2016 4:46 PM


JIll Stein panderer, Working Families endorses Clinton
Wrong.
No. Correct. I actually have read her responses to questions and her statements. The article I linked to has actual quotes.
You have to be blind or willingly ignorant not to see the several times she has responded to these assertions.
And each time she dissimulates and continues to pander and express anti-science views. She has been caught and shown to express anti-science and anti-vax views. She denies it, but expresses the viewpoints again.
This is DNC propaganda.
So we should not take Jill Stein at her word?
Cognitive dissonance is alive and well this election year
Looking in the mirror?
(see Working Families Party, of which I am also a member, see especially their issues).
I am very familiar with them and have had some conversations with them here in WI. Funny that the candidate you so vehemently oppose is endorsed by your party. What I like about them is that they see the long game and are not going to cut off their nose to spite their face. If they can continue to build an organization, I can see that I will be working and contributing more to them in the future.
Page not found - Working Families Party
quote:
With the support of 68% of our membership and the backing of our national board, we’re announcing the Working Families Party’s endorsement of Hillary Clinton for President.
WFP was an early, enthusiastic supporter of Senator Bernie Sanders’ campaign. He demonstrated the deep hunger of millions of Americans for a political revolution  a radical restoration of democracy and participation, an end to the oligarchic power of a wealthy elite, and a new era of economic, racial and climate justice.
But elections are about choices. And when we wake up on November 9th, either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will have been elected President. We choose Secretary Clinton, as Bernie did. We make this announcement knowing we’ll need to work to hold her accountable to her campaign’s promises. But we need to elect her first. Here’s why:
First, because we need to not merely defeat Trump we need to repudiate him and everything he represents. Donald Trump is the most dangerous figure in mainstream American politics since George Wallace. A Trump victory would not only put an unqualified, know-nothing, narcissistic, authoritarian jerk in the White House, it would empower the most malignant tendencies in American society. He offers up a phony, racist populism. He mocks the disabled. He stokes fear and incites hatred of immigrants, Muslims, and women. His rhetoric has generated violence.
We believe that a multi-racial, progressive and genuinely game-changing populism can win back some of his voters over time, especially independents, and that’s a task for the next decade. The task of the next 84 days is to sweep Trump and Trumpism off the stage once and for all.
Second, because Secretary Clinton has announced good policies on many issues that are deeply important to the lives and fortunes of the middle-class, working-class and poor:
Public Financing of Elections and Voting Rights. Clinton calls not just for tossing Citizens United but also for the creation of publicly financed elections. Not just restoration of the Voting Rights Act, but also automatic voter registration. There’s no chance of saving our democracy without these reforms.
Tuition-Free Higher Education. Clinton has adopted the bulk of Sanders’ free college proposal, and that’s something to be enthusiastic about. This will surely be a huge fight for the next two years.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Sec. Clinton supports a path to citizenship and the DREAM Act, and have called for expanding Obama’s executive action so families can stay together. Trump wants to build a wall and start mass deportations.
Jobs and Infrastructure. Clinton has called for enormous (and overdue) investment in public spending on clean energy and infrastructure. Trump favors tax cuts for the rich and the fraud known as trickle down.
Mass Incarceration. Clinton calls for ending private prisons, alternatives to incarceration (like drug treatment), and reducing mandatory minimums.
Climate Change. Sec. Clinton has announced policies that would make major investments in renewable energy while creating good jobs and protecting communities on the front lines of the global climate crisis. Trump says climate change is a hoax.
But it’s not just the policy proposals. It’s the enormous power of appointments, and not merely the Supreme Court.
The National Labor Relations Board and Department of Labor can make it harder or easier for workers to form unions, and for gig economy workers to obtain rights in the workplace. The EPA makes critical choices about how clean our water should be, and whether we will fight climate change for real. People facing foreclosure need advocates at HUD. 401(k) account holders need serious regulators atTreasury and the SEC.
This is not to say that Hillary Clinton is perfect. She’s not. No candidate is. The truth is, if she becomes President Clinton, she will only be as good as we social movements, unions, progressive activists and organizationsmake her. History is clear on this. LBJ’s achievements on civil rights and the safety net expansion were unimaginable without the civil rights movement; FDR’s New Deal would have been impossible without the mobilization of millions of unemployed and industrial workers. It’s up to us to set the stage for the future we want to see.
Even if a President Clinton were able to pass all of her policy proposals, it wouldn’t be enough to create the world we want to live in. We have to go much deeper than what the Democratic Party or modern capitalism currently allow. We have to change the rules of the game on the economy, on our democracy and on the planet. In the end we need to change the very questions we ask about what we owe each other and what our history really is. Fundamentally, we need to change the balance of power in the society so that the burdens and blessings of the land are truly shared.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 4:46 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(6)
Message 88 of 892 (792971)
10-17-2016 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by RAZD
10-16-2016 8:59 AM


Re: really?
Evidence of machine tampering to record false results, always to Clinton benefit (a trick learned from the GOP).
Bullshit. You have no evidence. I follow reports of voting irregularities. There is no evidence that shows any tampering. If you have it the FBI would be quite interested in seeing it.
Long lines in Bernie districts because of sudden cut-back on polling stations ... but not in Clinton districts.
How did anyone know which polling stations to cut back on? I suppose you have evidence for this accusation. Would love to see it.
Then add in the systemic rigging of closed primaries where independents could not vote, as in New York where you had to register democrat before the first debate to be able to vote in the primary. Half of Bernie's supporters were independents.
It was the Democratic Party primary. You have a problem with actual members of the party choosing their parties nominee. That is a very weird and disingenuous argument. This rule was not put in place for this contest. It has been the parties rule.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 8:59 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 121 of 892 (793136)
10-21-2016 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by RAZD
10-14-2016 11:26 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Are you and Glen Greenwald ready to apologize to Kurt Eichenwald?
http://www.newsweek.com/...-blumenthal-vladimir-putin-512271
It is shame how Greenwald has let his mission become a tool for a totalitarian regime. He has good points and reasons to distrust the US government, but to allow himself to be a tool of Russia is just sad.
He is missing an important tool and skill of a journalist, critical thinking.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:26 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 164 of 892 (793251)
10-24-2016 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by NoNukes
10-24-2016 1:51 PM


The article is simplistic bullshit. This is the classic attempt to make a very complicated subject black and white. Case in point.
quote:
The blue parts, however, are more densely populated -- they're the cities.
Evidently this guy has never been to Northern MN, WI, or Maine, NH and Vermont. Since when is CO primarily cities?
The article is worthless because the basic premise is bullshit.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by NoNukes, posted 10-24-2016 1:51 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 5:20 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 174 of 892 (793265)
10-24-2016 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Percy
10-24-2016 5:20 PM


But the whole article is insultingly simplistic and inane.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 5:20 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 6:42 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 175 of 892 (793266)
10-24-2016 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by NoNukes
10-24-2016 6:11 PM


Excellent point. It makes it seem like no Democrats live in vast parts of the country. This whole idea goes against the important concept our constitution works against. Tyranny of the majority.
With this map if a county has one more rep than dem it gets colored blue. That is effective in propaganda, but skews reality.
More reason to throw the whole article in the trash.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by NoNukes, posted 10-24-2016 6:11 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 177 of 892 (793268)
10-24-2016 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Percy
10-24-2016 6:33 PM


Neither you or RAZD presented it that way. And it was neither entertaining or insightful. It was sophomoric at best.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 6:33 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 6:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9354
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 181 of 892 (793274)
10-24-2016 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Percy
10-24-2016 6:42 PM


You expected an article with the title "How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind" to be detailed and serious?
Well lets look at the referrals.
From RAZD
An interesting read is:
A number of Bernie supporters also came from this group of people, and this article explains how someone can switch from Bernie to Trump, because the democrats are to busy becoming the new republican party to pay attention to the people.
Nope it didn't.
From you.
I want to encourage people to read this incredibly entertaining and insightful link RAZD posted:
From those comments I was expecting something actually insightful. It is insightful if you mean not presenting actual facts but lots of distortions, and epic stereotypes and racism.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 6:42 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 10:41 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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