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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 256 of 892 (793701)
11-04-2016 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Theodoric
10-16-2016 10:09 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Hi Theo,
I haven't been on the forum much lately. Just wondering if you will respond to my last post, Message 987, before the election:
Theo writes:
Hillary Clinton is not a great choice, but she is a good choice. She can be the instrument of a lot of good change for the people of the United States and people around the world.
We are encouraged to support our positions on this forum via evidence. So, while Hillary was Secretary of State, was there any actual evidence of her being an instrument of goodness?
As Secretary of State for FOUR years, what good did Hillary accomplish for the people around the world?
Be specific.
To help get you started, I'll start you off with examples from these nations:
1. Iraq. Only a few other Democrats were criminal and sociopathic enough to ENTHUSIASTICALLY support Bush Jr in his illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. A million innocent Iraqi deaths. 4500 american military deaths. Creation of ISIL. (The secular regime overthrown by [Hillary supported] U.S. forces was replaced by Islamist fundamentalists, and the ensuing sectarian civil war has produced horrific cases of sexual violence including not least the enslavement of women by extremist groups like the Islamic State.) Zcomm » Page not found
2. Lebanon (Clinton also backed Israel’s massive 2006 assault on Lebanon, as well as the 2009 and 2014 wars on the Gaza Strip, which killed many hundreds of female non-combatants.) Zcomm » Page not found
3. Honduras ({Hillary} supported the coup in Honduras, which resulted in a dramatic upsurge in violence against women, with prominent female peasant leaders, union organizers, and indigenous rights advocates among the victims) Your access to this site has been limited
4. Saudi Arabia (She’s called for closer strategic ties with Saudi Arabia, the most misogynist government on the planet.) Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner I ask again, while Hillary takes bribes/donations from Saudi Arabia for military weaponry, how many woman have been falsely executed by beheading?
5. Bahrain. (She supported Bahrain’s brutal crackdown on its pro-democracy movement, including prominent women leaders.) Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner
6. Yeman. (Yemeni human rights activist Tawakkol Karman, who was awarded the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize for her leadership in the country’s pro-democracy movement, has spoken out against then-Secretary Clinton’s lack of support in the struggle against the U.S.-backed autocratic regime of Ali Abdullah Saleh) Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner
7. Morocco. (A particularly egregious case of Hillary Clinton’s selective support for the rights of women is her strong support for the autocratic monarchy in Morocco. For example, in 2012 during the height of a local campaign to repeal an article of the Moroccan penal code that absolves a male rapist if he consents to marry his victim Clinton praised the Moroccan government for having protected and expanded women’s rights. Just weeks after Clinton commended the regime, Amina Filali a 16-year old Moroccan girl who’d been raped at the age of 15 and forced to marry her rapist, who subsequently battered and abused her burned herself to death.) Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner
8. Afghanistan. Yeah, life for EVERYbody in Afghanistan improved dramatically under Secretary of State Clinton.
9. Libya. Supported the defeat and death of Gadaffi. Chaos and spreading terrorism ruled afterwards. Later, Hillary chuckled, and chuckled, and chuckled, about the gruesome death of Gaddafi.
10. Syria. Supports the defeat of Bashar al-Assad, with the likely result of chaos and spreading terrorism ruled afterwards (See Libya above)
11. Israel/Gaza/Palestine. Hillary actually defended, DEFENDED, Israel murdering the peace flotilla from Turkey.
12. Egypt. Supported/defended dictator Mubarek until he was on the verge of being deposed.
13. United States military personal with ultra high suicide rates and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Edited by dronestar, : added: "Later, Hillary chuckled, and chuckled, and chuckled, about the gruesome death of Gaddafi."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2016 10:09 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Theodoric, posted 11-04-2016 5:24 PM dronestar has not replied
 Message 262 by Percy, posted 11-04-2016 6:00 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 257 of 892 (793703)
11-04-2016 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Theodoric
10-16-2016 10:09 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
quote:
6. Yeman. (Yemeni human rights activist Tawakkol Karman, who was awarded the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize for her leadership in the country’s pro-democracy movement, has spoken out against then-Secretary Clinton’s lack of support in the struggle against the U.S.-backed autocratic regime of Ali Abdullah Saleh) Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner
With regard to the text above, I compiled a very edited summary. What do you think of this?:
Saudi Arabia, an oppressive, theocratic monarchy, is a barbaric human rights horror show. A major exporter of world terrorism, have we forgotten that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis?
According to WikiLeaks, in 2009, then U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote, Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban and other terrorist groups.
Ongoing Saudi air strikes in Yemen have killed thousands of innocent civilians. There have been hundreds of documented criminal attacks on hospitals. The United Nations concluded that the Saudis, with U.S. military assistance, had committed grave violations.
The International Criminal Court Statute states that an individual can be convicted of war crimes if one aids or otherwise assists in the commission of the crime. The Leahy Law prohibits the United States from providing military assistance to nations that violate human rights.
So how does the United States violate its own laws by offering to sell military weapons — over $115 billion worth since 2009 — to Saudi Arabia?
Partly because, in 2009, the Saudis contributed $10 million to the Clinton Foundation. In 2011, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton oversaw a $29 billion sale of advanced fighter jets to the Saudis, a top priority for Clinton. Before the deal was clinched, Boeing, manufacturer of one of the fighter jets the Saudis sought, contributed $900,000 to the Clinton Foundation.
Edited by dronestar, : expanded clarity "U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2016 10:09 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 258 of 892 (793704)
11-04-2016 3:59 PM


This is what a Hillary Presidency looks like . . .
This erroneous image is what a Hillary Presidency looks like from an Iraqi viewpoint. But truthfully, in actuality, you would have to first multiply the innocent victims by about 200,000:
IMHO, a human being with intelligence or any humanity whatsoever could never vote for Trump or Hillary.

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 259 of 892 (793705)
11-04-2016 4:10 PM


Interesting tidbit . . .
Here's an interesting tidbit, "collateral damage" is a term that can also mean "DEAD CHILDREN."
Really!
However, the term "collateral damage" usually seems to be used when amerikan forces murder dark-skinned Middle Eastern peoples.
For some reason, I can imagine we amerikans will hear that term an awful lot in the next four years.

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 287 of 892 (793949)
11-07-2016 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Percy
11-04-2016 6:00 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Percy writes:
When you first posted that Hillary Clinton's opponent was Bernier Sanders, a credible potential President, but now it's Donald Trump, who has no experience at statecraft and is temperamentally unfit for office.
Well, as we can see from the picture below, Hillary certainly has "foreign experience" that Democrat voters are certainly proud of.
However, I am curious . . .
Do you think the viewpoints of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi mothers, who lost many of their children due to Hillary’s enthusiastic support of Bush Jr.s immoral and illegal Iraq invasion, would also consider Hillary to be a credible potential President?
Or, because these Iraqi mothers are dark-skinned, and, well, you know, . . . just women, we should, naturally, disregard their first-hand opinions about Hillary Clinton?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Percy, posted 11-04-2016 6:00 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by nwr, posted 11-07-2016 7:17 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 301 of 892 (794001)
11-08-2016 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by nwr
11-07-2016 7:17 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Do you think the viewpoints of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi mothers, who lost many of their children due to Hillary’s enthusiastic support of Bush Jr.s immoral and illegal Iraq invasion, would also consider Hillary to be a credible potential President?
I noted you (and Admin Asgara, Jar, Kjsimmons, Minnemousus, Tanapteryx, Vimesay, and of course "no-reply-Theo") didn’t answer my simple question (above). I even placed a photo to help you all to empathize (if that is even possible). Yet you all did your very best to look away from the horror your preferred candidate creates . . . no response for my other recent reply linking the other dozen countries Hillary has fu*ked. Especially the one about criminal-and-babymurderer-Hillary supporting Saudi Arabia. SAUDI ARABIA!
As a Hillary supporter, it must be a continual strain on your neck to look away from all her war-crimes. Exactly, EXACTLY, like Trump supporters holding their noses regarding his stench.
M'eh, mark me as unsurprised.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by nwr, posted 11-07-2016 7:17 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by nwr, posted 11-08-2016 10:45 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 304 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2016 3:41 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 309 by ramoss, posted 11-08-2016 11:57 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 303 of 892 (794010)
11-08-2016 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by nwr
11-08-2016 10:45 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well, let's see if I got the steps of your mature counter-argument correct:
1. Without any consideration what-so-ever, you’ve completely dismissed the vast quantity and quality of evidence presented. (Mainly: Message 256, Message 76, and Message 257)
2. Then you’ve condemned and ignored the following humane and logical follow-up question as: 'stinky.'
quote:
Do you think the viewpoints of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi mothers, who lost many of their children due to Hillary’s enthusiastic support of Bush Jr.s immoral and illegal Iraq invasion, would also consider Hillary to be a credible potential President?
3. As you announce you are going home and taking your ball with you, you pivot . . .
4. and apply an ad hominen attack to my credibility: Na na, Na na.
Errm, . . . Kudos NWR, kudos. How proud you and your young parents must be. Just think, maybe someday you'll be old enough to sit at the grown-up's table here at the debate forum.
___________________________
(Of all the voter-suppression tactics in place across the usa, a pity there isn’t minimal mental-age suppression.)
___________________________
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE PHOTO ALERT BELOW:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by nwr, posted 11-08-2016 10:45 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by nwr, posted 11-09-2016 7:59 AM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 305 of 892 (794013)
11-08-2016 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Theodoric
11-08-2016 3:41 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Theo writes:
I tend not to reply to trolls.
A good rule to live by, no doubt. But it doesn't seem quite as important as a rule against supporting war-mongers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Theodoric, posted 11-08-2016 3:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 338 of 892 (794054)
11-09-2016 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by nwr
11-09-2016 7:59 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
NWR writes:
But the evidence that you present is all about Y being bad. You have not provided one scintilla of evidence that X caused Y.
For the third time . . .
Message 256, Message 76, and Message 257
Maybe debating on a forum isn't one of your strengths NWR. Have you ever thought of trying needlepoint crafts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by nwr, posted 11-09-2016 7:59 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by nwr, posted 11-09-2016 12:29 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 339 of 892 (794055)
11-09-2016 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by RAZD
11-08-2016 6:29 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
RAZD writes:
What it shows is her mind-set, her readiness to "solve" problems with war instead of political negotiations.
Thanks RAZD.
It greatly helps me to know that there are SOME Americans who think intelligently, morally and empathetically.
There's surely gonna be some dark days ahead in Trump's presidency where I'll need a steadying voice. To me, you are kinda like the forum's answer to yesterday's Jimmy Stewart or today's Tom Hanks (reference to SNL). Please keep posting.
Thanks,
Drone

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2016 6:29 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 340 of 892 (794056)
11-09-2016 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by ramoss
11-08-2016 11:57 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
The title of the photo is "drone-strike-by-obama-children-killed.jpg"
There were no drones in 1982.
However, if you are absolutely 100% sure, let me know. I think I can find a more suitable photo for you from the MILLION Iraqi deaths caused by Hillary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by ramoss, posted 11-08-2016 11:57 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 10:32 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 372 by ramoss, posted 11-09-2016 11:18 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 344 of 892 (794060)
11-09-2016 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by vimesey
11-09-2016 3:16 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
vim writes:
(cue another condescending list of statements and photos from dronestar , coupled with an accusation that I am understating the position and not as left wing as him and therefore a monster)
I may be hateful and ugly, but, . . . ahh, . . . err, . . . what was the third thing you wrote about me?
Seriously Vim, I neither wanted Hillary nor Trump. They are neither qualified to be presidents nor human beings. Like RAZD stated, this morning I feel as bad as I did when I woke up after hearing Bush Jr won the second election.
I'm sorry world, we amerikans did bad. Real bad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by vimesey, posted 11-09-2016 3:16 AM vimesey has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 345 of 892 (794061)
11-09-2016 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by jar
11-09-2016 10:32 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Jar writes:
What you still have utterly failed to show is that Hillary caused any deaths.
Right, Hitler didn't cause any deaths either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 10:32 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 11:03 AM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 349 of 892 (794065)
11-09-2016 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by vimesey
11-09-2016 5:00 AM


Re: The Clinton Failure
That was a nice post. Good job Vim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by vimesey, posted 11-09-2016 5:00 AM vimesey has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1426
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 350 of 892 (794068)
11-09-2016 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by jar
11-09-2016 11:03 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
"Another absurd post from you."
Phew, I didn't think you could handle another disappointment for today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by jar, posted 11-09-2016 11:03 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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