Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 51 (9179 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,179 Year: 5,436/9,624 Month: 461/323 Week: 101/204 Day: 1/16 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 30 of 892 (792565)
10-11-2016 4:54 PM


When your main argument is, "Hey fellow Republicans, I'm just as bad as Bill Clinton, so you should vote for me," you probably aren't going to win. And that is just skimming the surface of this rather shallow pond.

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 31 of 892 (792567)
10-11-2016 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Theodoric
10-10-2016 5:17 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well since you claim it exists how about showing it.
It's the age old complaint we keep hearing from conservatives, that reality has a liberal bias. If journalists dare to report facts and reality, they are obviously biased against conservatives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 5:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 39 of 892 (792661)
10-12-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 4:14 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Diomedes writes:
But this is still due to the rhetoric that has been permeating on the right. As I mentioned, Dubya actually did effective outreach to Hispanics. And he still won (well, sort of), in 2000 and 2004. The problem is, this excessive rhetoric reached a fever pitch during the Obama administration. I think maybe actually seeing a black man in the Oval Office just put some Republicans over the edge. Idiots like Mitch McConnell, a guy who looks like what would happen if Franklin the Turtle lived to be 500 and eventually left his shell, pushed forth the notion that Obama had to be a 'one term president'. And this was before Obama was even sworn in!
In the end, while the Republican base may have certain views, they are guided to those views by the establishment. And that is what happened with Trump. Their fixation was on immigrants, birtherism, and 'insiders'. And they fixated on that because they were told to fixate on that. All other considerations fell to the wayside. Including their supposed 'Christian Values'. Look at how Trump behaves; he can boast about being able to grope women and grab them by the crotch and it does NOTHING to affect his numbers with the base.
Before Obama was even sworn in, the Republican establishment settled on a strategy where they would obstruct anything proposed by Democrats, and vilify Democrats as a means of distracting people from failed Republican policies. What's the Republican health care plan? Wait for Democrats to propose one, then be against it. That's their health care plan. The same applies to all other foreign and domestic policies.
When your only two actions are obstruction and demonizing your opponent, Trump is what you get. Republicans created the environment that allowed Trump's rise to prominence, and they should be held to account. The only thing keeping them afloat is that their hair brained Tea Party members will vote with Republicans in Congress, and their control of congressional districting through state governments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 4:14 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 5:44 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 41 of 892 (792668)
10-12-2016 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 5:44 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
And let's not forget gerrymandering. Another tactic they used, especially in 2010 when the Congressional districts were re-drawn.
In case it wasn't clear, that is what I meant by "their control of congressional districting through state governments" in the previous post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 5:44 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 3:11 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 62 of 892 (792812)
10-14-2016 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by NoNukes
10-14-2016 1:06 AM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
NoNukes writes:
Win or lose, I think the democrats are in a better position to evolve.
I am of two minds on that one, and am fascinated by the machinations of the whole political dance.
If you look at the Latino vote, they can be described as predominately conservative and probably more religious than the majority US population. I really think Republicans could court the Latino vote if they had the cajones to do it.
Overall, the Democratic platform is much more favorable to middle class families. Affordable health care, tax increases on the rich, social programs, paternity/maternity leave, affordable college, increasing the minimum wage . . . I could go on and on.
What do Republicans want to do that actually benefits the middle class? The only policy they seem to have is that if rich people have more money, maybe some of that wealth will fall off their table and the middle class can have the table scraps. Their only play has been to vilify the word "socialist" and vilify Democrats so that people will not focus on Republican policies.
I don't see why Republicans couldn't move towards the center since doing so would benefit people in their base. Not only that, but the extreme right wing of the US electorate is not going to suddenly vote for Democrats. If the Republican party breaks in two, the extreme right wing of that break is not going to form a coalition with Democrats. It is going to vote with centrist Republicans. The only problem would be the White House because a candidate needs a simple plurality to win compared to some other parliamentary systems where you need a majority coalition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2016 1:06 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 85 of 892 (792967)
10-17-2016 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Diomedes
10-17-2016 4:26 PM


Re: The Supreme Court - More Obstruction
Diomedes writes:
So for those keeping score, the new rules as dictated by Republicans regarding the Supreme court are as follows:
You forgot #4: Claim Democrats are unwilling to reach across the aisle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Diomedes, posted 10-17-2016 4:26 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 89 of 892 (793014)
10-18-2016 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by RAZD
10-16-2016 8:59 AM


Re: really?
RAZD writes:
Then add in the systemic rigging of closed primaries where independents could not vote, as in New York where you had to register democrat before the first debate to be able to vote in the primary. Half of Bernie's supporters were independents.
And add in the systemic rigging through the media (all owned by corporations that supported Hillary massively) so that even MSNBC rarely mentioned Bernie and the media blackout on his rallies,
Finally there is the systemic rigging of the superdelegates such that Bernie would have needed something over 60% of the popular vote to win.
The word "rigging" is going to need a long vacation after this election due to all the abuse it has to put up with.
Those were the rules BEFORE even one vote was cast. Those are the same rules that were around when Obama was nominated, for crying out loud. It isn't rigged. Those are the rules. When you follow the rules, IT ISN'T RIGGED.
For crying out loud . . .
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by RAZD, posted 10-16-2016 8:59 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 94 of 892 (793044)
10-19-2016 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
10-19-2016 9:29 AM


Re: Rigged
jar writes:
The US has what must seem very strange election laws. This is yet another of those examples.
Party nominations are not US elections. If a political party wanted to, it could choose one person to be the sole elector of their party's nomination. There are no laws that say a party's nominee must be chosen by a vote of the people. A party can do whatever it wants when it comes to choosing their nominee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 10-19-2016 9:29 AM jar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 98 of 892 (793060)
10-19-2016 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by NoNukes
10-19-2016 2:29 PM


Re: Rigged
NoNukes writes:
That said, the election process in the US does seem to be taking longer and longer each cycle.
It takes the same amount of time every other year--just one day, the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2016 2:29 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 3:03 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 104 of 892 (793078)
10-20-2016 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
10-20-2016 9:33 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
jar writes:
Back in 1860 the first Republican President was elected and at that time his election was also not accepted. Yet history shows that President served his full term and was even reelected four years later.
Not sure if that is sarcasm or not, but history also shows that 11 states seceded from the union following that same election.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 9:33 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 11:55 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 107 of 892 (793082)
10-20-2016 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
10-20-2016 11:55 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
jar writes:
I lived through a nasty period in the US and had hoped that once would be enough.
History has shown us that we are doomed to repeat it. For example, there were strict regulations put in after the Great Depression to prevent another Great Depression. What did we do? We got rid of those regulations which resulted in another massive recession. Go figure. How many market bubbles do we have to see before we stop falling for them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 11:55 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 113 of 892 (793093)
10-20-2016 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by xongsmith
10-20-2016 3:11 PM


Re: Gerrymandering solution?
xongsmith writes:
How do we avoid gerrymandering of any kind?
The best way to avoid gerrymandering is to have non-partisan councils put in charge of districting. It is impossible to make seats exactly match percentage of votes, but at least we can put some distance between political parties and districting.
Suppose every seat is At Large.
That's a no-go. I personally think it is worth preserving the tradition of US Representatives being held accountable to an actual geographic region and the voters who live in that geographic region.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 3:11 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 5:37 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 165 of 892 (793252)
10-24-2016 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Diomedes
10-24-2016 9:44 AM


Diomedes writes:
But in the general election, where substance carries more weight than bravado, Trump is now starting to crumble.
Trump could have been the same loudmouth and lost the Democratic primary running on a Democratic platform. Only Republicans put value in the simple ability of insulting the other party. Democrats actually expect policies.
I think this is really the story for the election. The Republicans elected a nominee based solely on his ability to insult other people. That is what their party has become. That is what their news channel is. That is what their talk radio is. That is all they have done in Congress for the last 8 years. No policies. No vision. Just insults.
Fox News isn't going to change. Alt-right media isn't going to change. Right leaning radio isn't going to change. In 4 years we will see a candidate who knows what to do: insult people non-stop.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Diomedes, posted 10-24-2016 9:44 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 202 of 892 (793351)
10-26-2016 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Percy
10-26-2016 9:57 AM


Re: What a friend said he liked about Trump
Percy writes:
The negotiations would fail. What Clinton would do next is anyone's guess, she hasn't said. A Syrian no-fly zone seems impractical for several reasons, including the one you mention, so hopefully she wouldn't do it anyway.
Some losses are a win. If Russia refuses to allow safe zones for innocent refugees protected by US air power, then that puts Russia in a very poor light, even poorer than the light they are currently under. This produces leverage that can be taken advantage of at the UN. It could even lead to economic sanctions against Russia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Percy, posted 10-26-2016 9:57 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-26-2016 3:54 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 233 of 892 (793542)
11-01-2016 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Diomedes
10-31-2016 11:21 AM


Re: Latest Polls
Diomedes writes:
So far, the fallout from the recent email snafu seems to not have had much of an effect on the numbers. Latest from Real Clear Politics shows Clinton with about 263 electoral votes sewn up:
realclearpolitics.com
As it stands, all she needs to do is win Colorado and she has won the election. And she is currently ahead there by 4.5 points.
Trump has increased his lead slightly in Ohio and Florida is still waffling back and forth. But otherwise, not much in the way of change.
My guess is unless something of substance comes out of that FBI investigation in the next few days, it appears most of the email controversy is already baked into the results.
Then again, anything can happen.
I think the Trump campaign knows this, even if they are unwilling to address it publicly. When someone from the Trump campaign is asked to comment on the national polls they try to redirect by saying that they are ahead in Ohio, as if Trump is running to be President of Ohio.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2016 11:21 AM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Diomedes, posted 11-01-2016 12:59 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024