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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 892 (792390)
10-08-2016 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Big_Al35
10-08-2016 10:25 AM


He knew now was the time to shoot himself in the foot, by releasing this info,
Welcome back, Big Al.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Big_Al35, posted 10-08-2016 10:25 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 892 (792403)
10-08-2016 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Percy
10-08-2016 1:56 PM


Re: More Backlash
Percy writes:
hey knew, they were just holding their collective breaths hoping Trump could avoid calling too overt attention to it in the few weeks left before the election. The insincerity reeks.
Similar sentiment is expressed here:
We're shocked: Donald Trump is a sexist | CNN
quote:
Republicans are acting as if they are in a state of shock about their nominee.
But all of the Republican rhetoric over the past 24 hours seems a bit hypocritical to those who have been following the campaign. This is not the first time that Trump has made statements that are controversial and offensive. This has been a campaign that has seen sexism, nativism and Islamophobia front and center.
...
It is too late for Republicans like Jeff Sessions or Mike Pence to suddenly express shock.
To most minds the "responsible, respectable Republican" described by Roby would be Republican vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence
To my mind, Pence is a wing-nuts wing-nut. He is not electable nationally.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 10-08-2016 1:56 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 892 (792482)
10-10-2016 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by 14174dm
10-10-2016 12:49 PM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
Seriously? You don't think the GOP brought this on themselves?
They did. The idea that Clinton, or any democrat is responsible is pretty bizarre. But that is what Trump supporters might say. In a perverse way, one might state that Obama winning in 2008/2012 caused the immediate reaction of Republicans which led to the utter dissatisfaction with both parties. Hatred for democrats because of Obama, and hatred for Republicans because of their inability to focus on anything other than opposing Obama even after gaining control of the legislature.
But to make such statements is really to improperly assign responsibility. Republicans are responsible for their own policies or lack thereof. Perhaps a more positive set of policies, something other than making sure Obama gets only one term, attacking the ACA, and making sure Obama never wins, might have made a difference.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by 14174dm, posted 10-10-2016 12:49 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 892 (792759)
10-14-2016 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by dwise1
10-14-2016 12:13 AM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Actually, they had learned from the Romney fiasco. By performing their postmortem of the 2012 election, they figured out exactly which groups they had to reach and what they had to do to win in 2016.
The problem is that their base disagreed and chose Trump.
I had not before considered this argument. It makes a lot of sense to me. The Republican party's difficulty here is that expanding their electorate via outreach also risks losing some of the base. And unfortunately for the Republican establishment, there is no path to rationalizing the base. Any attempt to move to the center simply provides an opportunity to for a tea party guy or worse by a demagogue like Trump to oust you during the primary. I simply don't see a path towards the center for the Republican party. But that's what the party bought into during the 60s.
Win or lose, I think the democrats are in a better position to evolve.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by dwise1, posted 10-14-2016 12:13 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Taq, posted 10-14-2016 12:48 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 892 (793056)
10-19-2016 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by caffeine
10-19-2016 1:56 PM


Re: Rigged
The US system still seems odd though. The Republican primary in France will be held on 20th November. If no one gets 50% of the vote they will have a runoff the week after. Only in the US do you think it necessary for this process to take a year.
I suppose the primary process could be completed in a just a day or two even with the country divided up into 50 states. In the US, the presidential primaries are 'primarily' dog and pony shows to allow the public to meet the candidates and to drum up nationwide interest in their nominee. A year is perhaps way too long for that, but a month would be way too short, in my opinion.
That said, the election process in the US does seem to be taking longer and longer each cycle. It seems like this time around the process has taken 2 years, which is just plain ridiculous.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by caffeine, posted 10-19-2016 1:56 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Taq, posted 10-19-2016 3:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 892 (793067)
10-20-2016 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
10-10-2016 3:08 PM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
With that one exception, the Federal Governments powers to adversely effect the average citizen is fortunately limited.
True. However the power of individual states to inflict harm on the average citizen has historically been shown to be immense. The federal judiciary has been a powerful check on such power and I will get my lazy butt up early tomorrow to cast a vote for president based on a single question; what do I want the federal judiciary to look like over the next decade or so.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 10-10-2016 3:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 8:36 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 124 of 892 (793139)
10-21-2016 4:39 PM


Unscientific exit poll...
Here is some unofficial, unscientific, exit polling data based on my subjective, non-repeatable observations.
I had promised to get up early to vote, but I stayed up so late writing code that I could not get to the early voting location at 9:00. I took my wife to the nearest location at around noon, but the place was so jam packed that I could not get a parking space. The attendant told me there was a 60-90 minute wait.
We drove to the next closest location, but there the line extended out of the building and around the nearest corner and on up the street. No go. We then drove to a third location and found a more reasonable line, and a couple of available parking spaces. The location was at a public library in a predominantly black section of town. I got inside to vote after less than an hour in line. Just about everyone in the line was holding a blue "voter assistance" sheet that listed what folks democrats ought to vote for. Folks in the line, which was composed of people of all races, but mostly black, were freely talking out what a buffoon trump was. One couple told me that they had watched the debate while playing a drink game that required downing something every time Trump said "Bigly".
By the time I left, the line at the library was wrapped around the back and extending out into the parking lot. I had gotten to the polling place just before the lunch time crunch.
My conclusion: Early voting in North Carolina is off to a smashing start. Reviews in the Raleigh newspaper indicates that the pace is even higher than during either of the Obama elections which is a great sign for Democrats in NC who are hoping to pick a new governor as well as a president. I am unofficially declaring this state for Clinton, well ahead of November 8.
Next week, my wife and I will be taking elderly family members to the polls. I don't expect there will be any Trump supporters among them, but I don't plan to ask them who they are supporting.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by xongsmith, posted 10-21-2016 5:19 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 892 (793140)
10-21-2016 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by xongsmith
10-21-2016 3:29 PM


Re: Gerrymandering solution?
In my system, the 33,476 are added to the D state-wide totals to help increase the apportioned Democratic share of the 36 Representatives.
What you are essentially saying is that you want all of the representatives to be elected "at large" regardless of what area of the state they represent. While this might sound like a great idea, there are some huge downsides. For example, your representative might end up being someone who has no knowledge of or strong ties to your area of the state despite the fact that the issues involved in your say urban area are distinct from large but sparse rural area of the state.
A better system would be just not to allow political gerrymandering which in many cases ends up being predominately race based discrimination excuses as "just politics". NC is a primary example of the downside of the current system.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by xongsmith, posted 10-21-2016 3:29 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by xongsmith, posted 10-21-2016 6:04 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 892 (793149)
10-22-2016 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by kjsimons
10-21-2016 5:23 PM


Re: Unscientific exit poll...
but in Florida you can vote in any early voting site. On election day you need to go to your specified polling place though.
North Carolina has similar rules. During early voting you can also register and vote on the same day. If your address is improperly listed, you can get that fixed on the spot.
But on election day, you have to go to your specified polling place, and issues with your registration can require you to cast a provisional ballot. That is supposed to be safe, but last local election, a bunch of provisional ballots turned up missing and were not counted.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by kjsimons, posted 10-21-2016 5:23 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 892 (793150)
10-22-2016 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by xongsmith
10-21-2016 6:04 PM


Re: Gerrymandering solution?
The Representatives should represent what YOU want, not some area of the state. You are essentially arguing for Government by the land owners
Seriously. I don't see how you get any of that from what I said. Representatives being associated with the region does not mean that they are responsible to land owners. How does living in a district make it difficult for you to represent renters or even homeless folks. Perhaps you should rethink this accusation.
Representatives as currently chosen represent the folks in their district regardless of what party is selected. They are required to live in the district as well which may result in them sharing some of the concerns of the folks that live there.
Think of the money this would save.
Seriously, if we're going to ignore associations with the area, why not allow folks from other states to run for state office? I live in an urban area, and i would prefer that my representative, Democrat or Republican, be similarly situated. Your mileage may vary.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by xongsmith, posted 10-21-2016 6:04 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 892 (793173)
10-23-2016 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by xongsmith
10-22-2016 2:55 PM


Re: Gerrymandering solution?
We're talking within one state, not the other side of the ocean. You are using hyperbole beyond it being useful.
The concerns that get people elected in Richmond, VA are vastly different than those that get folks elected in Woodbridge VA, a town which is pretty much a DC suburb. You don't need a thousand mile wide state before regional concerns become important.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by xongsmith, posted 10-22-2016 2:55 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by caffeine, posted 10-23-2016 6:43 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 141 by xongsmith, posted 10-23-2016 3:18 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 149 by RAZD, posted 10-24-2016 9:10 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 892 (793195)
10-23-2016 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by xongsmith
10-23-2016 3:18 PM


Re: Gerrymandering solution?
You don't have to live in Richmond to vote for someone who shares your concerns there. You could actually live in Woodbridge.
I want a representative for whom Woodbridge's interests is foremost, even if I don't agree with every solution he proposes. I don't want a general good guy who values Woodbridge equally with Richmond and Quantico.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by xongsmith, posted 10-23-2016 3:18 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 892 (793241)
10-24-2016 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Percy
10-24-2016 11:16 AM


want to encourage people to read this incredibly entertaining and insightful link RAZD posted:
I'm curious about how folks take on this article. My own impression as someone who has lived in urban areas since the age of 7, is that the writer's view of city folks is hopelessly incorrect. I was hoping for an insightful view of the distinction between city and country, but I am left wondering just how good a picture the article paints when it generalizes about cities so much until its position is nigh onto worthless.
If anything, I am less sympathetic to the author's view point than I was before reading the article.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 11:16 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2016 3:36 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 167 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 4:47 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 171 of 892 (793262)
10-24-2016 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Percy
10-24-2016 4:47 PM


more specific
I suppose you are right, but my intent was to probe the impressions of others more than to lay out my own case. In responde to your request:
I found the impression that California is representative of urban areas a fairly simplistic view. The description of urban/black culture in the general terms used here was so replete with racism that the writer's claims not to be racist sounded like creation science apologetics.
On top of that, she made red state folks sound like short sighted buffoons incapable of empathy. Ostensibly, the author's intent was exactly the opposite. Maybe the author was being sarcastic?
After reading a number of such generalizations, I wondered how much of the supposed debunking of blue state impressions of red state folks I ought to take seriously. My conclusion is that I should not take the article seriously at all.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 4:47 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 6:33 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 892 (793264)
10-24-2016 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Percy
10-24-2016 5:20 PM


Maps like the one above also dismiss as irrelevant or unimportant red and blue folks who happen to be a minority side in their own county. That is a pretty significant distortion.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Percy, posted 10-24-2016 5:20 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2016 6:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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