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Author | Topic: The 2016 United States Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I suppose you must be reading the declassified report. He's commenting on the actual report.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The subject is not what Russia may be doing to provoke war. THAT'S ANOTHER SUBJECT. I'm talking about the validity of the intelligence report on Russian hacking of the election. Period.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17909 Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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And what makes you think the McAfee has seen the actual report ?
Or that the details he lists would have been classified anyway ? I had my doubts about his claims - I suspected that he was cherry-picking at best - and it seems that those doubts have been confirmed.
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Taq Member Posts: 10296 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Faith writes: It's the sort of thing that could start a war and I'd rather not start a war, especially over something that isn't even true; It's as if Neville Chamberlain has been resurrected from the dead. This is the same attitude that some politicians took towards Hitler. How did that work out? Also, we already have more than we need to start a war, if we wanted to. Their meddling in our politics is the least of their sins.
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Taq Member Posts: 10296 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Faith writes: The subject is not what Russia may be doing to provoke war. THAT'S ANOTHER SUBJECT. I'm talking about the validity of the intelligence report on Russian hacking of the election. Period. It would seem to me that you made your mind up before looking at any evidence. Your basis for rejecting one person's findings over another is based solely on their support of Russia. Why are you supporting Russia?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The subject is not what Russia may be doing to provoke war. THAT'S ANOTHER SUBJECT. I'm talking about the validity of the intelligence report on Russian hacking of the election. Period. Right, Faith. Except that you stated your wish that the hacking not provoke a war. Here is an apology for you. I am sorry that I exposed your hypocrisy over the hacking which nobody is using as reason to fight a war with Russia. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Percy Member Posts: 22934 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Faith writes: He's commenting on the actual report. As McAfee says in the first 20 seconds (see the YouTube video in your Message 829), he's referring to the Grizzly Steppe report about malicious Russian cyber activity, which you can find here: GRIZZLY STEPPE — Russian Malicious Cyber Activity. McAfee has no way of knowing if the classified report is based upon Grizzly Steppe because he hasn't seen it, but it would make no sense to classify material already released in a public report. As the unclassified report states:
quote: --Percy Edited by Percy, : Clarification.
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 8.6
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Like the entire intelligence community invented WMDs in Iraq to start another war once. I'd rather not. Or maybe there is some other hidden purpose.
I'm pretty sure that's false. It was Bush and Cheney who invented WMDs. I'm pretty sure that the intelligence community was giving Bush accurate information in private, while giving him that "slam dunk" in public.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1655 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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They just kept that to themselves so they could use it to make Trump dance to their tunes. You've probably seen some of he news items online ... here's a couple:
quote: quote: That adds a golden touch to his visits to Russia. Also Page not found | USUNCUT - US News | Breaking News | Latest News Today Then there are the financial debts he owes ... #notMYpresident Edited by RAZD, : added first quoteby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1655 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I want to stress that the information is unconfirmed at this time. See also
quote: Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Riggamortis Member (Idle past 220 days) Posts: 167 From: Australia Joined: |
Perhaps the US could remove the beam from its own eye rather than pissing and moaning about Russia doing exactly what the US has been doing for decades? If meddling in another nations politics is a sin, then I suspect there's a special place in hell for the US.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Like the entire intelligence community invented WMDs in Iraq to start another war once. I'd rather not. Or maybe there is some other hidden purpose. I'm pretty sure that's false. It was Bush and Cheney who invented WMDs. I'm pretty sure that the intelligence community was giving Bush accurate information in private, while giving him that "slam dunk" in public. Sounds like all they had was INaccurate information, according to Colin Powell, information that everybody nevertheless took to be true. Here he is talking about how he regrets the case he made for WMD in 2003, and it sounds to me like he's saying it originated with intelligence..And here is where he mentions that 16 agencies agreed that Iraq had WMD, although he doesn't exactly say they invented the idea, as I put it.
...I made the case with the director of central intelligence sitting behind me. He and his team had vouched for everything in it. We didn’t make up anything. We threw out a lot of stuff that was not double- and triple-sourced, because I knew the importance of this. When I was through, I felt pretty good about it. I thought we had made the case, and there was pretty good reaction to it for a few weeks. And then suddenly, the CIA started to let us know that the case was falling apart parts of the case were falling apart. It was deeply disturbing to me and to the president, to all of us, and to the Congress, because they had voted on the basis of that information. And 16 intelligence agencies had agreed to it, with footnotes. None of the footnotes took away their agreement. So it was deeply troubling, and I think that it was a great intelligence failure on our part, because the problems that existed in that NIE should have been recognized and caught earlier by the intelligence community. (my emphasis) Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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and it sounds to me like he's saying it originated with intelligence..And here is where he mentions that 16 agencies agreed that Iraq had WMD, although he doesn't exactly say they invented the idea, as I put it. We no longer have to guess about these questions Faith. The document that was the basis of the authorization to use force has been declassified and released. I'll cite some of the information. It largely confirms my opinion that General Powell was badly abused by the Bush administration. The CIA Just Declassified the Document That Supposedly Justified the Iraq Invasion It seems abundantly clear that the information from the intelligence services was spun, "upgraded" in certainty, and exaggerated by the politicians, primarily the Bush administration. In many cases qualified hypothesis were upgraded to fact. Here is one excerpt from quoted from the document. There is plenty more similar stuff.
quote: And of course everyone is probably aware of the statements Colin Powell passed on about Iraq trying to purchase yellow cake. Remember what happened to Valerie Plume after her husband debunked this bit of falsehood? Yet another excerpt:
quote: Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Taq Member Posts: 10296 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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Riggamortis writes: Perhaps the US could remove the beam from its own eye rather than pissing and moaning about Russia doing exactly what the US has been doing for decades? If meddling in another nations politics is a sin, then I suspect there's a special place in hell for the US. That's a fair criticism, but for it to have weight we have to agree that Russia is behind the attack. When the conservative right of American politics reflexively defends Russia from findings that put Russia in a bad light, what in the world is going on? We are talking about the Party of Reagan, for crying out loud. Would Reagan have bent over backwards to cover up Russian spying in the US, and talk about how Gorbachev is such a great leader simply because Ol' Gorby said nice things about Ronnie? Both Russia and the US rolled around in the same global political pig sty for quite some time. None of us are clean nor should we pretend we are. However, at least we were both smart enough to have proxy governments battle it out in the past so we could both save face and avoid direct conflict. Now we are seeing direct attacks, which is something new.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Then the intelligence agencies simply caved in to what they knew Bush wanted, Powell too. But the point I was addressing was that those agencies, ALL 16 OF THEM, lied about there being WMD in Iraq. Sad to think we can't trust them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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