Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,388 Year: 3,645/9,624 Month: 516/974 Week: 129/276 Day: 3/23 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Extent of Mutational Capability
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 164 of 279 (793593)
11-02-2016 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Gregory Rogers
11-02-2016 8:26 AM


I would like to ‘unpack’ this a bit: the ID and Creationist response here is to say that the limb is not vestigial, but has a natural function, serving as an attachment point for muscles that both male and female cetaceans need to reproduce.
The best way to test this is, I would say, to examine the limb itself ...
This is exactly what generations of biologists have already done. The conclusion of these trained experts is as stated. The ancestors of the whale used to be land dwelling mammals. The hip bones still in the whale of today are vestigial to that ancestry.
Who could possible be right: thousands of highly trained and experienced experts over multiple generations vs a few creation-believing religious zealots with no training or expertise in the subject? The motivation to find the most likely reality of a situation vs the motivation to shore-up an errant religious pre-conclusion?
Hmmm ... tricky.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Gregory Rogers, posted 11-02-2016 8:26 AM Gregory Rogers has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 172 of 279 (793638)
11-02-2016 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by CRR
11-02-2016 7:57 PM


Re: The Maths
The generation time for chimps is similar to humans but even allowing a shorter time there should be no more than 5000 mutation differences separating chimps and humans if the evolutionary scenario is correct.
And the actual comparison studies show your number off by an order of magnitude then halved yet again. We and our brother chimps really are that closely related.
Haldane's work presents no bar to evolution in any way at any level as the man himself concluded in his book.
quote:
Unless selection is very intense the number of deaths needed to secure the substitution by natural selection, of one gene for another at a locus, is independent of the intensity of selection. It is often about 30 times the number of organisms in a generation. It is suggested that in horoletic evolution, the mean time taken for each gene substitution is about 300 generations. This accords with the observed slowness of evolution.
page 524 Haldane JBS. (1957).
When understood and used properly Haldane's Dilemma really isn't.
source
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by CRR, posted 11-02-2016 7:57 PM CRR has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024