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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3010 of 4573 (857297)
07-07-2019 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3006 by JonF
07-05-2019 2:43 PM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
From the Census bureau FAQ

Are undocumented residents (aliens) in the 50 states included in the apportionment population counts?
Yes, all people (citizens and noncitizens) with a usual residence in the 50 states are to be included in the census and thus in the apportionment counts.

Are children under 18 years old included in the apportionment population counts since they cannot vote?
Yes, being registered to vote or voting is not a requirement for inclusion in the apportionment counts.
https://www.census.gov/...n/apportionment/about/faq.html#Q16

So the blue states, such as California, New York and New Jersey jack up their clout in the electoral college with people who can't vote. Sounds very ante-bellum South!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3006 by JonF, posted 07-05-2019 2:43 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3011 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2019 1:12 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3014 of 4573 (857349)
07-07-2019 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3011 by Theodoric
07-07-2019 1:12 PM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
CA NY and NJ are the top three in percent foreign born. Texas is #7. I was thinking of the ante-bellum South that counted "all other persons" and jacked up their representation, despite the fact that those "persons" weren't allowed to vote. History repeats itself as tragedy, then as farce...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3011 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2019 1:12 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3015 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2019 11:14 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 3016 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 8:25 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3017 of 4573 (857376)
07-08-2019 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3015 by Theodoric
07-07-2019 11:14 PM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
You must realize that having a sub-population that cannot vote could be a catalyst for social problems? It's almost as if the US had invaded Mexico and taken Sonora as a colony, restricting the voting rights of the inhabitants there who were descended from immigrants from Spain.

Consider as well the issue of a sub-population disenfranchised because of previous criminal records. Or the issue of "territories" and "possessions"


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 3025 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2019 2:50 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3018 of 4573 (857381)
07-08-2019 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3016 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 8:25 AM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
The blue states would lose more than the red states, since their population counts include non-voting aliens (both legal and illegal). For example, CA NY and NJ are the top three in percent foreign born. Texas is only number 7.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3016 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 8:25 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3019 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 9:43 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3020 of 4573 (857389)
07-08-2019 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 3019 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 9:43 AM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
It is, admittedly, not a perfect analogy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3019 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 9:43 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3021 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 11:20 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3022 of 4573 (857410)
07-08-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3021 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 11:20 AM


Re: Representation of immigrants
It makes for some weird imbalances.

From 2018:

quote:
Tijuana native Alma Martinez will cast her first-ever vote for a Mexican president this July, but from across the country's northern border, where she is among hundreds of thousands of co-nationals whose participation could be decisive in a close race.

Seven times as many Mexicans in the United States have received voting credentials under new rules that let citizens sign up at local consulates rather than in Mexico, compared with the last presidential election six years ago.
...
Adrian Felix, a University of California Santa Cruz professor, said he expects more US votes to be cast than in previous elections. But he said the multi-step registration process, plus skepticism, could limit the increase among the estimated 12 million Mexicans living abroad....
https://www.csmonitor.com/...uld-tip-tight-presidential-race


And going the other way:

quote:
Reports are that approximately one million Americans live in Mexico. While it’s hard to verify that number, it’s not hard to imagine that it’s true. Some are working, of course, for U.S., Mexican, or other foreign corporations. You’ll find them in cities like Mexico City, Queretaro, and Monterrey.

And some live in Mexico just part-time…spending winter months in vacation homes where the weather is always warm and the cervezas are always cold.

Many Americans in Mexico, however, have moved there to enjoy their retirement years. They live in Mexico full-time and enjoy better weather, a more relaxed lifestyle, and a host of other benefits—including affordable top-quality health care and a much lower overall cost of living. ...
https://internationalliving.com/countries/mexico/one-million



This message is a reply to:
 Message 3021 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 11:20 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3023 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 1:49 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 3024 by dwise1, posted 07-08-2019 2:34 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3026 of 4573 (857468)
07-08-2019 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3023 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 1:49 PM


Re: Representation of immigrants
I quite agree that citizens should be able to vote even if they aren't in their district on voting day.

I didn't say anything about the constitutional requirement that the US census must count all persons.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3023 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 1:49 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3031 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 5:48 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3027 of 4573 (857470)
07-08-2019 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3025 by Theodoric
07-08-2019 2:50 PM


Re: Can't keep that trap shut.
Then you can surely see the problems of the current situation in places like California where some inhabitants are subject to the law but do not have the privilege of choosing the lawmakers and may, in fact, owe allegiance to a neighboring nation.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


(1)
Message 3028 of 4573 (857471)
07-08-2019 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3024 by dwise1
07-08-2019 2:34 PM


Re: Representation of immigrants
That, of course is the ideal, a border like that between France and Germany or between Spain and Portugal. Perhaps someday the entire North American continent can be united as a single polity.

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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3033 of 4573 (857553)
07-09-2019 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3031 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 5:48 PM


Re: Representation of immigrants
My first post was a quote from the Census Bureau FAQ, not a discussion of the Constitutional requirements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3031 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 5:48 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3034 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2019 12:16 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3035 of 4573 (857562)
07-09-2019 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3034 by Theodoric
07-09-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Representation of immigrants
Just thought I'd put in some actual facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3034 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2019 12:16 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 729
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 3037 of 4573 (857567)
07-09-2019 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3036 by Theodoric
07-09-2019 12:32 PM


Re: Representation of immigrants
I apologize for my shortcomings.

Have a nice day.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3036 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2019 12:32 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
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