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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
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Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1 of 4573 (796762)
01-04-2017 8:20 AM


Time to transition from The 2016 United States Presidential Election to this new thread to cover the Trump presidency.
Trump did a good thing yesterday in using the bully pulpit, er, tweets to force the Republicans to reverse their trashing of the independent ethics committee. Here are a couple other good things Trump wants to do:
  • Change health insurance to a single payer system. I'm not sure he was serious about this, and I don't know what the details are.
  • Repeal the tax law that allows the wealthy to transform interest earnings into long term capital gains that are taxed at about half the rate. This is the law that allows Mitt Romney to pay only 20% in taxes every year when his actual tax bracket is 39.6%.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 01-04-2017 2:38 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 111 by NoNukes, posted 01-13-2017 5:47 PM Percy has replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(7)
Message 9 of 4573 (796835)
01-05-2017 8:31 AM


A Couple Requests
I'd like to make a couple requests:
  • The topic is not fake news. I suggest someone start a Fake News thread, and everytime an argument starts about fake news the participants can take discussion to that thread.
  • If you're commenting on a news story or about something you read in the news, provide a link.
I'm sorry to be moderating my own thread, I didn't expect to have to do this, but I was very generous in my opening post because I think it important we have a thread for rational and reasonable discussion of the Trump presidency that is rooted in fact. I won't be tolerating posts from the edge of sanity.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3744 by Phat, posted 01-20-2020 6:16 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 15 of 4573 (796859)
01-05-2017 3:28 PM


I hope there won't be a discussion about what Faith really meant when she first said our voting machines were hackable, then said it was impossible the Russians hacked them, then said "not from Russia." It will never be sorted out and it isn't worth derailing the thread.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 16 of 4573 (796874)
01-06-2017 6:51 AM


Don't Cross Trump
We're seeing a familiar pattern now:
  • Person or agency takes a position or action that Trump disagrees with
  • Trump gets angry and begins tweeting about it.
  • Trump threatens the person or agency.
The most obvious example is Trump's threat to jail his political opponent, Hillary Clinton. Today Trump will be briefed on Russian influences on the 2016 presidential race, and today it was also revealed that Trump plans to revamp the intelligence agencies:
quote:
President-elect Donald Trump is crafting plans to restructure at least two of the nation’s top intelligence agencies, according to a new report.
Trump is eyeing overhauls of the CIA and the office of the director of national intelligence (DNI), The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.
Lesson: Don't disagree with Trump. It doesn't matter if you're right, you'll pay for it anyway.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 01-06-2017 8:04 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 18 of 4573 (796878)
01-06-2017 9:29 AM


The Trump Wall
I thought the Trump Wall with Mexico was just campaign rhetoric, but I guess not: House GOP, Trump team hatch border wall plan
The US will pay to build the wall and then bill Mexico later.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 22 of 4573 (796898)
01-07-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
01-06-2017 10:27 AM


Re: The Trump Wall
Just to repeat what you're saying more directly, the Texas border with Mexico is the Rio Grande River. Google says its 1254 miles long. We can't build the wall on the Mexican side, so we have to build it on our own side. We're proposing building a wall between ourselves and the river. Wherever along the Texas border you currently see the Rio Grande River, in the future you'll see a wall. If you use the river for transportation or recreation, you'll first have to find a way through the wall to get to the river.
This is absurd, asinine, especially since all it will do is change the methods and routes used for illegal immigration. More importantly, it's entirely wrongheaded because immigration contributes to the country's growth and strength.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 01-06-2017 10:27 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 8:52 AM Percy has replied
 Message 24 by jar, posted 01-07-2017 8:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 26 of 4573 (796903)
01-07-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
01-07-2017 8:52 AM


Re: The Trump Wall
Faith writes:
The man isn't in office yet, we've seen no specific plans for how this wall is to be constructed,...
Specifics are not Trump's forte - name something he's been specific about. Certainly not his taxes or healthcare reform.
But no one's talking about "how this wall is to be constructed." We're talking about *where* it has to be constructed. If you can think of another possible place for the Rio Grande portion of the wall that isn't between the river and the rest of the country, you let us know.
And of course pretending that the wall would be keeping out "immigrants" instead of illegals.
I did nothing of the sort, the context was obviously illegal immigration, but we *are* in need of immigration reform. It should be far easier to immigrate into this country than it is. Immigrants built this country, continue to build it, and we need a continuing stream of immigrants on into the future.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 8:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 9:26 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 31 of 4573 (796909)
01-07-2017 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
01-07-2017 9:26 AM


Re: The Trump Wall
Faith writes:
You did indeed imply that the illegals are immigrants that the country needs. Perhaps it isn't what you meant but that is what you said.
You have this amazing ability to start arguments in zero time. No Faith, I did not imply that or mean that or say that. The larger context is that if immigration were not made so difficult then illegal immigration wouldn't be such a problem.
I'd leave it to Trump's advisors to plan the Rio Grande portion of the wall, or whatever other form of dealing with the illegals they come up with for that area. This debunkery is premature.
The wall is big time in the news right now. Commenting now is completely apropos, especially the financing which we haven't discussed much yet. Apparently we're going to pay for the wall ourselves and then bill Mexico. Good luck with that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 9:26 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Dogmafood, posted 01-07-2017 6:32 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 40 of 4573 (796943)
01-08-2017 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
01-07-2017 6:45 PM


Faith writes:
How many poor people are there in this world who might benefit from living in America where they'd get sophisticated care of many kinds?
The actual high level goals are twofold:
  • Elimination of the labyrinthine immigration regulations that take years to navigate.
  • Wholesale reduction of the illegal immigrant class so that they can become fully participating members of our society, including on-the-books jobs, health insurance, driver's licenses, the paying of taxes, etc.
The same impulse that caused Americans to pack up their belongings and head west is the same for immigrants: they want to better their situation. Their success will be our success because instead of living in an impoverished underground economy they'll be full participants in our mainstream economy as both contributors and consumers.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 01-07-2017 6:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:01 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 48 of 4573 (796961)
01-08-2017 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
01-08-2017 3:01 PM


Faith writes:
Aren't you discriminating against the poor Africans and Mongols and Indians who would also seek a better life if they happened to live next to the American border? Isn't discrimination against a class of people against the American dream?
You're actually referring to the issue of how to establish quotas for different nations. I think some of the considerations should be factors like strife or unrest; economic hardships like drought or starvation; interest level; professions of need; odds of success; family ties; etc.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:56 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 52 of 4573 (796970)
01-08-2017 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
01-08-2017 3:56 PM


Faith writes:
But no quotas for anyone who comes over our southern border.
No one has suggested excluding Mexico from immigration quotas.
The rest of your post seems to be marching off into the crazy again, and you appear to be trying to pick a fight. I'd like to keep this thread civil and rational. If you can't do that then please get off the thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 5:41 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 56 of 4573 (796975)
01-08-2017 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
01-08-2017 5:41 PM


Your posting permissions for the Coffee House forum have been removed. See Message 9.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 5:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 60 of 4573 (796989)
01-09-2017 9:00 AM


Restoring Faith's posting permissions in the Coffee House forum. Just civil and rational discussion please. Quote what you're replying to and include links to sources.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Minor edit.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 65 of 4573 (797007)
01-09-2017 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
01-09-2017 5:15 PM


Re: Did Trump mock a disabled reporter?
For reference, here's video of Trump referring to the disabled reporter:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 5:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 5:39 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22567
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 77 of 4573 (797036)
01-10-2017 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
01-09-2017 5:39 PM


Re: Did Trump mock a disabled reporter?
Let's put this one to bed, then: Donald Trump did not mock a handicapped reporter. The gestures were ones Trump typically uses when mocking someone.
It will be, uh, interesting to see how the more inimical aspects of Trump's behavior play out as President.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 5:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 01-10-2017 8:50 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 01-10-2017 11:35 AM Percy has replied

  
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