Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9036 total)
95 online now:
dwise1, nwr, vimesey (3 members, 92 visitors)
Newest Member: Barry Deaborough
Post Volume: Total: 885,667 Year: 3,313/14,102 Month: 254/724 Week: 12/91 Day: 0/12 Hour: 0/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 331 of 4573 (799438)
02-10-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 329 by Percy
02-10-2017 7:59 AM


Re: A Bit of Good News on Financial Advice
The financial industry objects strongly to the rule because they believe it would negatively influence their ability to give advice to clients who cannot pay for it because agent income could only derive from the financial instruments they sell, so agents might decline servicing such clients.

I'm sorry, huh? What is there problem with it?

It would negatively influence their ability to give advice to clients who cannot pay for their advice? Or cannot pay for the recommendation of the advice?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Percy, posted 02-10-2017 7:59 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Percy, posted 02-10-2017 4:00 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 355 of 4573 (799693)
02-13-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Percy
02-10-2017 4:00 PM


Re: A Bit of Good News on Financial Advice
The regulation requires that agents make potential remuneration to themselves a secondary rather than primary consideration. Their client's best interests should be kept first and foremost. It's intended to prevent the abuses that occur when agents sell investment vehicles that make them a lot of money without regard to their client's financial well being. Look up boiler room.

If that still doesn't make sense then maybe I'm not explaining it well enough. It was just in the news over the past few days so there should be little difficultly looking up news articles that explain it better than I can. Try this one: Labor Department may seek delay of fiduciary rule: report

Thanks for the link, there was another link in there that explained the concern from the advisors point of view (sorry, I've been really busy and not really paying attention to the news).

I can't tell if that line of thought is disingenuous or not, though.

In one sense, I get where I might want my financial advisor to *not* take my best interest as a first priority - which is when I want to gamble. I would be a little pissed if I asked him for advice on a gamble and he could only reply: "Sorry, by law I can only inform you that gambling on this is not in your best interest." And then if I was like: 'Dude, I'll pay you for your opinion on this one", and then he had to reply: "Sorry, that's illegal", then, yeah, that would be pretty annoying.

I get the idea against the boiler room stuff, that's a no brainer.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Percy, posted 02-10-2017 4:00 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2017 12:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 357 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2017 12:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 358 by ooh-child, posted 02-13-2017 1:37 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 359 by NoNukes, posted 02-13-2017 3:47 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 364 by Percy, posted 02-14-2017 8:28 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 962 of 4573 (815909)
07-26-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 961 by Chiroptera
07-26-2017 9:47 AM


Re: Sessions
The New York Times this morning mentioned how firing Sesssions would alienate the "conservative" portion of his base.

I'd love to see Sessions get fired.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 961 by Chiroptera, posted 07-26-2017 9:47 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 963 by ringo, posted 07-26-2017 3:07 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply
 Message 966 by Rrhain, posted 07-27-2017 5:06 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 973 of 4573 (816202)
07-31-2017 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 966 by Rrhain
07-27-2017 5:06 PM


Re: Sessions
Get rid of Sessions and you can pretty much guarantee that Mueller will get fired.

Meh, I don't really care.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 966 by Rrhain, posted 07-27-2017 5:06 PM Rrhain has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 989 of 4573 (816250)
08-01-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 987 by Chiroptera
08-01-2017 12:08 PM


What I absolutely cannot fathom is the large number of supporters who can still look at this Administration and say, "Yeah, that's the President I want!"

It's like Punk Rock - I know it's shitty, but it's still kinda fun


This message is a reply to:
 Message 987 by Chiroptera, posted 08-01-2017 12:08 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1002 of 4573 (816357)
08-03-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1000 by NoNukes
08-02-2017 10:10 PM


Re: Fake news... or Trump missing the point massively.
Trump is running his hotel business? Really?

The link in the article that they referenced as "last month" was from 2016...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1000 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2017 10:10 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1091 of 4573 (817179)
08-15-2017 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1090 by DrJones*
08-15-2017 5:08 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
On one side you had the counter protesters and on the other side you had FUCKING NAZIS.

Are you saying there wasn't a single non-Nazi in the group?

Sure the opposition wasn't all squeaky clean but they were opposing FUCKING NAZIS. You had a parade of sister fucking hillbillies and inbred cousin humpers, there wasn't a fine person in that bunch.

And if the counter protesters hadn't showed up then nothing would have came of it and nobody would have gotten hurt, just like all the other KKK rallies that go on that nobody cares about.

Punch a Nazi today.

You're advocating violence against free speech that you dislike. Please stay in Canada.

If someone is saying something that you don't like, stay away and ignore them. Don't feed the flames you dinguses.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by DrJones*, posted 08-15-2017 5:08 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1092 by DrJones*, posted 08-15-2017 5:26 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 1093 by Taq, posted 08-15-2017 5:30 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1094 of 4573 (817193)
08-15-2017 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1092 by DrJones*
08-15-2017 5:26 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
if there were any non-nazis I sure hope they left when they realized they were siding with FUCKING NAZIS.

Or the neo-nazis were siding with them... If neo-nazis love maple syrup does Canada need to stop eating it? 'Cause according to you, you'd be siding with FUCKING NAZIS...

Ignoring nazis doesn't make them go away.

In America? Sure it does.

no I'm advocating violence against nazis.

You're advocating violence against what you think are nazis - because you dislike what they're saying.

What if you're getting Poe'd? If some cheeky asshole gives a Bellamy salute, that doesn't make him literally a Nazi. And you shouldn't be punching them.

Too, Leftists are literally calling for communism - and communists were just as murderous as the Nazis, if not more.

Do you also justify punching people wearing Che shirts?

What about this person:

You gonna punch them too?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1092 by DrJones*, posted 08-15-2017 5:26 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1098 by Percy, posted 08-16-2017 4:34 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 1099 by DrJones*, posted 08-16-2017 6:08 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1095 of 4573 (817195)
08-15-2017 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by Taq
08-15-2017 5:30 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
The KKK is a dying piece of shit and all y'all are doing is keeping it alive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by Taq, posted 08-15-2017 5:30 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1103 of 4573 (817391)
08-17-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1098 by Percy
08-16-2017 4:34 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
I think probably most people share my own reaction to this of, "The maple syrup comment makes no sense, and DrJones* wasn't implying anything like that anyway."

And yet they just posted that if there are 10 people and one Nazi then you have 11 Nazis. And then, apparently, you can get started with the punching.

They're wrong because their message of hate is wrong, and it is important that we make clear how strongly we object to this message.

Great, just stop calling for and bringing violence.

Too, painting with a broad brush and poisoning the well makes y'all look just as hateful as those you oppose... and hypocritical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1098 by Percy, posted 08-16-2017 4:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1108 by Percy, posted 08-18-2017 6:54 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 1113 by DrJones*, posted 08-18-2017 10:20 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1106 of 4573 (817512)
08-17-2017 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1098 by Percy
08-16-2017 4:34 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
In Message 1103, I wrote:

quote:
I think probably most people share my own reaction to this of, "The maple syrup comment makes no sense, and DrJones* wasn't implying anything like that anyway."

And yet they just posted that if there are 10 people and one Nazi then you have 11 Nazis. And then, apparently, you can get started with the punching.

I'm going to clarify further::

Up-front disclosure: I don't support the alt-right. This is just a point of principle.

That point is: A terrible group, in this case neo-nazis, joining your side in something does not make you a member of that group and does not make your side automatically wrong.

On top of that, you shouldn't advocate violence against a person just because you think they are a member of a group, even if it is neo-nazis - you could be wrong and violence isn't the answer.

So, to further clarify I'm going to use Arnold Schwarzenegger's message to Trump about this. Have you seen it?

The Governator writes:

There are not two sides to bigotry.
There are not two sides to hatred.
And if you choose to march with a flag that symbolizes the slaughter of millions of people, there are not two sides.

I agree. But if some asshole decides to bring that flag to a march I want to participate in for different reasons, then there actually is more than one side.

They'd be choosing to march with me, I didn't choose to march with them.

The Governator writes:

Don't hang around people who carry Nazi flags, give Nazi salutes, or shout Nazi slogans. Go home. Or better yet - tell them they are wrong to celebrate an ideology that murdered millions of people. And then go home.

If I'm marching for something, then I don't want to be at home. Just because some asshole with a flag shows up doesn't mean I should stop. Consider some neo-nazis showing up to a BLM protest against the police because they agreed - would you expect the BLM protesters to go home?

If I was marching, I would yell at a nazi-flag-bearer, and tell them to fuck off and get the fuck out. But I wouldn't go home if it was something that I thought was worth marching for (more disclosure: practically, that is nothing that I think is actually plausible). I wouldn't punch anybody that didn't AssaultMewhich is loaded and complex - and beside the point, though, and I don't think anyone should advocate otherwise.

I'm on board for "leaving the terrible ghosts of the past in the trash heap of history", but I think that we shouldn't bury our trash and forget about it - and tearing old monuments down is stupid. But that is not something I'm worth marching for. And cities can do what they want with their shit. But the calls for violence need to stop.

Hrm, what do you think about this:

If thinking that a person is a nazi means that you are justified in punching them, then wouldn't that make calling someone a nazi a punch-able offense? Especially if you're wrong about them? If people thinking that I'm a nazi means that I'm gonna start getting punched, then if you started calling me a nazi I would feel justified in starting to punch you in defense. Isn't that fair?

Yeah, how about we just don't start any punching? And how about we all stop advocating violence against people that we think are members of a group?

ABE:

Martin Luther King in Strength to Love writes:

Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.

Edited by New Cat's Eye, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1098 by Percy, posted 08-16-2017 4:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1109 by Percy, posted 08-18-2017 7:07 AM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 1120 by xongsmith, posted 08-18-2017 3:55 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1107 of 4573 (817513)
08-17-2017 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1099 by DrJones*
08-16-2017 6:08 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
You're advocating violence against what you think are nazis - because you dislike what they're saying.

Yes the people who showed up chanting "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us" whilst carrying flags with swastikas on them were just having a laugh. To paraphrase something Chris Rock tweeted the other day "if you have 10 guys who think it's ok to hang out with 1 nazi, you have 11 nazis."

So therefore, logically: If you are marching for something, and people show up agreeing with you that are carrying nazi flags and chanting naughty words, then that makes you a nazi too and I am justified in punching you if you do not leave?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by DrJones*, posted 08-16-2017 6:08 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1111 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 9:00 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 1112 by DrJones*, posted 08-18-2017 10:17 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1114 of 4573 (817566)
08-18-2017 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1109 by Percy
08-18-2017 7:07 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
Is this a hypothetical, or something you're claiming was substantively the case in the violence in Charlottesville?

A bit of both, I suppose. There is a point of principle: If you have 10 people and 1 nazi shows up, you do not, actually, have 11 nazis.

Too, at the Unite the Right rally, I'm sure there were attendees who simply wanted to protest the removal of the statue and had no interest in racism.

Just because some assholes show up doesn't make the other people assholes too.

The counter protesters lumped everyone into one group and called for violence against them all. They should be ashamed of themselves.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1109 by Percy, posted 08-18-2017 7:07 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1115 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 1116 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:24 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 1121 by Percy, posted 08-19-2017 8:24 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1119 of 4573 (817604)
08-18-2017 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1116 by ringo
08-18-2017 12:24 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
I already replied to that point in Message 1106.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1116 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:24 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1123 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 11:51 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 1126 of 4573 (818000)
08-22-2017 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1120 by xongsmith
08-18-2017 3:55 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
My question is whether or not there was a reason they would want to march with you? And then thinking what reason would you have had to march with this Charlotteville group instead of against it?

Well, I thinks it is stupid to tear down old statues. And I don't give a shit if some asshole also thinks that.

But what would be your "different reason" here, in this case?

The stated reason for the protest was not tearing a statue down. If some assholes show up to display their anti-semitism, that doesn't mean I have to no longer want to preserve the statue.

Perhaps you might be talking about something else like Stopping A Pipeline?

Hadn't thought of it, but let me use that to further illustrate my point:

The natives were protesting the pipeline.
Say some neo-nazis show up who also do not want the pipeline and stand with the natives.
Some leftists are saying that makes the natives neo-nazis as well. I don't agree.
Other leftists would present two choices to the natives:
1. Just leave - I don't think they should have to stop fighting against the pipeline.
2. Join the other side - I don't think they should have to start supporting the pipeline.

I think they also have the option of ignoring the neo-nazis, or telling them to fuck off, and then just keep doing what they're doing.

The problem is that leftists will start calling them NAZIS and think it is okay to start punching them.

That is unacceptable.

There are, actually, more than two sides in that situation.

Make sense?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1120 by xongsmith, posted 08-18-2017 3:55 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1127 by NoNukes, posted 08-22-2017 2:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021