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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 3761 of 4573 (871581)
02-05-2020 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3760 by DrJones*
02-05-2020 8:03 PM


Re: Acquittal
i attribute it mostly to the republicans being spineless
Every single Democrat voted Guilty and every single Republican (with the exception of Mitt Romney) voted Not Guilty. If this isn't partisan politics then I don't know what is. We have a deeply flawed system.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3760 by DrJones*, posted 02-05-2020 8:03 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3762 by jar, posted 02-06-2020 7:22 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 3765 by Taq, posted 02-06-2020 5:44 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4010 of 4573 (877495)
06-16-2020 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4002 by Coragyps
06-15-2020 3:44 PM


Re: The Supreme Court...
Wow. That ruling is a bit unexpected. I’ll bet that some of the usual suspects are a bit, uh, butthurt.
Gorsuch and Roberts strike me as more egalitarian than Alito and Kavanaugh.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4002 by Coragyps, posted 06-15-2020 3:44 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4185 of 4573 (880042)
07-28-2020 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 4173 by Phat
07-27-2020 3:15 PM


Re: What Makes Christians Ignorant?
Im not a huge fan of trump, though most of my Christian friends who like him list two main reasons, and dont mention the obvious third reason.
1) He supports Israel
Because he knows that's what his voting base wants.
2) He is against abortion.
Because he knows that's what his voting base wants.... although Donny was pro-abortion for decades... not to mention a Democrat... not to mention has never been and still is not a Christian by any respectable definition.
3) Their small businesses did a lot better.
Until he completely botched Covid-19 and now every single small business has already gone under or is facing Chapter 11.
But perhaps you can again tell us what specifically makes a Christian ignorant.
Any self-avowed Christian who supports Donald Trump worships Caesar and the almighty mammon, not Jesus or anything he stood for.
Phat, your own bible distinguishes between false prophets and true God-fearing people. It even distinguishes between different Christian churches, particularly in the last days, when it delineates between the 7 Churches of Asia Minor. Note how many of those churches were upright and how many were found to be in error. Hint: the majority were preaching false doctrine.
Someone saying they are "Christian" should mean almost nothing to you. I am truly astonished by the sheer number of "Christians" who support Donald Duck. These are the same people who, with a straight face, will tell you about the wiles of the Anti-Christ and how he's going to trick the masses, but they themselves can't see the irony of following Donald Trump.
Donald Trump, a man who has had a silver spoon lodged firmly up his ass for his entire life; a man who has NEVER known what it is to suffer, what it is to live paycheck to paycheck, a man who cannot relate to Middle America, somehow duped all of middle America into thinking he gives a shit about them.
I stand corrected. I guess miracles do happen.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4173 by Phat, posted 07-27-2020 3:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4197 of 4573 (880087)
07-29-2020 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 4164 by PaulK
07-27-2020 1:56 AM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
I thought Federal employers were meant to follow the Constitution.
For fucks sake, the Federal Protective Service's only real job is to protect is to protect federal assets. Every major city in the US has a federal building and many have federal courthouses. Those federal buildings usually house multiple agencies ranging from DHS, FBI, US Marshal's, ATF, ICE, DEA, etc and those federal courthouses hear trials that range from espionage to terrorism and even civil rights violations for police officers who may have violated their qualified immunity. Them staying intact is a matter of national security and its a matter of protecting Constitutional law. There is nothing unconstitutional about it and, in fact, it was originally chartered by none other than George Washington during the first legislative session of Congress.
Graffiti is hardly a major offence that calls for a heavy deployment of additional men, let alone kidnapping people off the streets or tear-gassing peaceful protestors
You mean the "peaceful protesters" barricade federal police officers in a building after intentionally setting it on fire to kill them? Or are you referring to the man who ambushed federal police with a hammer?
The Bill of Rights guarantees the right of the People to redress their government with a list of grievances.... all perfectly fine and Constitutional. But you need to note the careful and deliberate wording of PEACEABLE assembly. Setting people on fire for doing nothing more than protecting the buildings they're chartered to protect is unjustifiable any way you look at it.
You, along with other lefty cohorts, are obfuscating and conflating to muddy the waters -- to blur the lines of distinction between a legitimate protest from a riot. You have no legal ground to stand on. You have no moral ground to stand on. And if a single one of you can explain how any of this is helping the situation I'd love to hear about it and it discuss it.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4164 by PaulK, posted 07-27-2020 1:56 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4198 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2020 12:04 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 4200 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2020 1:07 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4199 of 4573 (880096)
07-29-2020 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4198 by PaulK
07-29-2020 12:04 PM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
I think you’ll find that it is the DHS that is sending agents in.
I know that. That's really odd that the Department of Homeland Security is providing security to the homeland.
But protecting federal assets does not extend to picking people - people who are not suspected of any crime - off the streets and bundling them into vans without telling them where they are going. But they did that to Mark Pettibone.
To the extent to which the Portland Police Bureau or Seattle Police Department is shackled by mayors and a City Council playing to the crowd, at what point should order be restored? How many liberally-owned or black-owned businesses have been senselessly destroyed because its opportunism at its finest? A legitimate outrage has spilled over into blind rage and indiscriminate violence and if you don't cut it off at the knees it emboldens morons to not only continue the cycle of violence but to ratchet it up.
CHAZ/CHOP was a prime example of what a power vacuum in an actual anarchic society looks like. Might = right... Warlords. Factions. Disorder. The same people that hate borders because its racist erected borders and controlled access through the threat of force. The same people who hate the police became vigilante police mobs. The same people who hate police brutality crushed any dissent with impunity. The same people who said that arms should not be in the hands of ordinary citizens armed themselves and used those weapons. Where is your moral outrage?
The Seattle mayor, playing to her voting base, at first called it a "Summer of Love" until the murders, assaults, sexual assaults, theft, etc became too obvious to deny or allow unabated. She tried to draw parallels to the Hippie Movement with this mob.
You're also not taking into consideration that the federal government did nothing for two months waiting for the violence to die down but never did. Night after night after night the looting, the rioting, the violence continued in places like Portland and Seattle. So this should just go on indefinitely?
Seems that’s exactly what you are trying to do. There are rioters and there are peaceful protestors. And both sorts can get tear gassed, just like people standing peacefully, away from any violence can be intentionally shot with baton rounds.
Yeah, and the actual peaceful protesters are getting tired of people seizing this moment to sow as much chaos and disorder as possible.
In cities that actually did significantly decrease police funding have seen a reciprocal rise of violence. New York, for instance, which enjoyed about 20 years of lowered violent crime is suddenly beginning to relive its violent past from the 70's, 80's and 90's with rates that are soaring.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4198 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2020 12:04 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4201 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2020 1:12 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4203 of 4573 (880117)
07-29-2020 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 4201 by PaulK
07-29-2020 1:12 PM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
In other words you are going to ignore all the reports of peaceful protestors getting tear gassed.
A chicken/egg problem, much like the Boston Massacre. Who was it that drew first blood that day?
You know, covering up the problems never leads to a solution.
Right back at ya

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4201 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2020 1:12 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4209 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2020 1:06 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4204 of 4573 (880118)
07-29-2020 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 4202 by Trump won
07-29-2020 6:45 PM


trump doesn't bathe in the blood of innocents.
...... Yikes....... this must be awkward for you.....
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4202 by Trump won, posted 07-29-2020 6:45 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4205 by Trump won, posted 07-29-2020 9:46 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4206 of 4573 (880127)
07-29-2020 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4205 by Trump won
07-29-2020 9:46 PM


he changed his position and has done more for life than any us president in history double yikes for taking an old soundbite
This lifelong Democrat changed his mind to win over dumbass Christian voters who think he's actually a Christian
Its a political ploy, lad. Its an expedient towards getting elected. He's pandering to his voting base. If Trump knocked up one of his mistresses he would 100% be all for abortion.
By their fruits you will recognize them... kind of telling that you can't. Trump has only one god -- mammon.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4205 by Trump won, posted 07-29-2020 9:46 PM Trump won has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4208 by DrJones*, posted 07-29-2020 11:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4210 of 4573 (880149)
07-30-2020 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 4209 by PaulK
07-30-2020 1:06 AM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
Is it? In every case? There isn’t one where the police - or federal officers - didn’t attack people who were clearly peaceful?
Whether any of it is true, does it invalidate the need for social order? Your argument seems to be that if 100 people are throwing molotov cocktails and 100 people aren't but are standing in proximity of those that are, that if police use any force that is indiscriminate in nature (tear gas) that the police are somehow bad. Fair enough, as long as you take into consideration a few realities.
Imagine what an undulating sea of bodies in a cacophany of noise looks and sounds like and what it must be like trying to distinguish between threat versus non-threat. You don't know what its like unless you have had the displeasure of dealing with it day after day and experiencing it. The distinction between somebody making a sudden and wild movements within striking distance of you while frothing at the mouth but does not make contact versus that exact same visage that does attack you is measured in centimeters.
Oh, but is Paul able to distinguish between 100 officers who used force versus another 100 officers that didn't? No, because Paul now has the impetus to lump them all together as a mass of violence. They no longer have agency or individuality. They are all stormtroopers to Paul.
At this point I think its fair to ask what has been said today that hasn't already been said for the last 50 + days? You are naive to think that the remaining body of protesters are there because of George Floyd. Spoiler alert: They aren't. The only remaining protesters at this point are the ones seeking to completely transform Western Civilization through an endless stream of complaints -- complaints that, mind you, will never be ameliorated because the objective isn't to resolve the complaint. No, the complaint itself is the objective. To have an endless stream of complaints for imagined or self-imposed problems.... That's the fucking goal, Paul. And the more you capitulate to an angry mob trying to appease them back into good nature the more they demand and the more they take by force.
And so here we are, Paul.... Here is the brave new world you asked for, as our respective civilizations crumble away. Behold what you have helped create in all its glory while China and Russia laugh their fucking asses off.
I’m not covering up anything.
You're excusing shitty, petulant, childish and destructive behavior and trying to pass it off as legitimate protest. What's going on in Portland, OR is not a fucking protest. Its a goddamn riot that isn't just causing minor inconveniences, its literally destroying lives. It may have begun as a protest with an honorable message... but we're passed that point now. That you don't see or don't want to see the distinction is your complicity in this cover up.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4209 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2020 1:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4215 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2020 1:18 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4212 of 4573 (880173)
07-30-2020 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4211 by vimesey
07-30-2020 9:50 AM


Re: The first step.
And so it begins.... Trump suggests delay to 2020 US election
An obvious stall for time. He knows where he stands in the polling. I see he's already establishing an escape clause for when loses the election, citing fraud before the election has even taken place.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4211 by vimesey, posted 07-30-2020 9:50 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4216 of 4573 (880207)
07-30-2020 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4215 by PaulK
07-30-2020 1:18 PM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
I’m using my phone to respond so please bear with me by not using direct quotes.
Qualify what a peaceful protester is during the middle of an actual riot. If you’re there caught up in the melee then it’s your own damn fault.
Even if half of the complaints were justifiable what you’re failing to see is that there is no right answer that’s going to make people suddenly stop asking for greater and greater demands. Nothing is ever enough.... that’s the problem. Maybe not for you, maybe your demands are quite reasonable and I hope that they are. But as I said the overwhelming majority of remaining protesters are agitators who don’t want an answer, don’t even know what it looks like in practical terms, and is basically seizing upon the opportunity.
This very Saturday multiple left wing extremist groups have vowed to bus in to different cities with the sole intention of causing riots and sowing discord.
That you whitewash all the shitty behavior gives away your motives and your rationale. Thanks for illustrating the most aberrant side of leftwing demagoguery.
And what does radical leftwing ideology promote? Reactionary and Radical right wing ideology. We can’t go down this path to destruction. Qui Bono from this division?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4215 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2020 1:18 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4217 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 12:23 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4220 of 4573 (880230)
07-31-2020 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 4217 by PaulK
07-31-2020 12:23 AM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
Who says that the use of tear gas is restricted to ‘actual riots? We know that the lower grades of tear gas were used on peaceful protestors in Washington when Trump wanted to go out to deliver a speech.
I asked if you would qualify what a peaceful protester is during a legitimate riot. You seem to be caught up on tear gas, as if its on par with Mustard Gas of WWI. Every US serviceman is required to be subjected to CS gas as part of bootcamp training. You know why? Because while causing extreme discomfort in the moment, it has no lasting effects. Are you wanting to ban the use of CS?
My demands? How about more efforts to stop the police brutality.
What would that effort look like in practical terms? We've all seen images of police brutality but perhaps what seems objectively reasonable to some may be objectively unreasonable to others. I'll tell you what it looks like per the Austin City Council. They want zero uses of force by the year 2023. Yeah, isn't the use of force kind of dependent on the actions of the other party?
And your opinions of the demonstrators does not remove their right to peacefully demonstrate nor does it justify the intentional targeting of journalists, legal observers or people giving medical aid away from the violence.
Nor am I suggesting that it should. What I am suggesting is that the majority of remaining protesters at this stage are either paid protesters or they are agitators and instigators. Because of Covid there's a whole lot of people out there with no money and nothing better to do. Some of you said it was rightwing propaganda that there was such a thing as "paid protesters." Its real. Its very real and its quite lucrative because their donors usually have deep pockets.
Demand Protest - We Assemble Movements
https://crowdsondemand.com/
quote:
This very Saturday multiple left wing extremist groups have vowed to bus in to different cities with the sole intention of causing riots and sowing discord.
That’s what you say.
That's what I know.
Antifa mobilizes agitators for nationwide riots on Saturday | The Post Millennial
But I don’r do that, do I? What you mean is that I refuse to join you in endorsing police thuggery.
If you think you can do such a better job then go out there and do it.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. -- Theodore Roosevelt
And too many police are on that side. Ever think about that?
Then stop manufacturing them.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4217 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 12:23 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4221 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 10:08 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4224 of 4573 (880249)
07-31-2020 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 4221 by PaulK
07-31-2020 10:08 AM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
And? I was saying that the police - or federal agents - shouldn’t be attacking obviously peaceful protestors. Please explain how your question fits into that.
I suppose we can continue to go in circles where you say police shouldn't attack obvious peaceful protesters (which I obviously agree) but to which I reply what a peaceful protester looks like when the only remaining protesters are there to fuck shit up.... and then the cycle repeats. So lets try this: for non-peaceful protesters using force, is it acceptable for police to use commensurate force to effect an arrest?
What I want is more restraint in it’s use. Which by the reports I’ve seen is obviously needed.
So give me an example of an acceptable use so that there's some kind of metric for when it should be allowed and when it shouldn't.
I can make a few suggestions. Better training, especially in deescalating situations. Less militarisation. More firing of guilty officers, more checks on hires so they can’t just walk into another police job, more willingness of other officers to testify against them.
We are finally in agreement on something. Progress!
Well that’s rather odd, since I haven’t seen any sign of you acknowledging wrongdoing on the part of the police up to now.
Nonsense. I have been critical of police numerous times on this thread and others similar to them, acknowledging failures when they arise. I am simply differentiating between what you may call inappropriate and I say is appropriate. There we would likely disagree on a few line items.
Even if that were true - and what I’ve seen makes it unlikely - they still have the right to peacefully protest. Physically attacking them is not the answer.
If it were true? It is true, despite the leftwing media's attempt to deny it. Its subterfuge, Paul. And your cavalier dismissal of its relevance is actually hilarious.
That’s what the headline says. It’s not what the quoted messages say (one mentions fighting which may be meant literally, but another announces a COVID-mindful picnic). And there’s very little mention of bussing people in. The vast majority just look like people calling for peaceful protests.
LOL, yeah, attack the source not the substance. Typical diversionary tactic. Those are screenshots from Antifa's own social media accounts that you can easily verify right now. ANTIFA provides the Feds and Pigs with the best intel. No sophistication required. Plus their ranks are filled with informants and operatives.
I wouldn’t claim to know something just because such a source said so.
That's literally what you just did!
I think we're done here, Paul. We're going around in circles and your inability to debate with a modicum of honesty and integrity is growing tiresome. Good luck to you and your fantasy world.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4221 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 10:08 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4225 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 11:32 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4227 of 4573 (880279)
07-31-2020 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 4226 by PaulK
07-31-2020 12:18 PM


Re: US Federal Brownshirts
And let’s just add. The protests in Portland last night were peaceful.
Crazy peaceful.... it was basically a huge love-fest.
Perhaps it was because the demonstrators weren’t attacked by federal agents.
What a stupid argument! That's like saying you didn't get wet because you didn't go in to water. You are, of course, placing the cart before the horse. Why were federal agents even out there to begin with? Might it have something to do with the 50+ days of non-stop violence, looting, and rioting??? You are completely delusional, as if "federal agents" are warring in a vacuum or as if the violence wasn't started by leftist extremists.
You have said a few times that haven't said anything about police misconduct, which I have. I have not once heard you disavow or even accept Antifa's role in this. This is a tacit admission that you condone it, however, you realize that if you were to openly say it it would invalidate your criticisms of the police RESPONDING to the violence.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4226 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 12:18 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4228 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2020 4:54 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 4231 by ringo, posted 08-01-2020 9:12 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4234 of 4573 (880510)
08-07-2020 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 4230 by PaulK
08-01-2020 7:47 AM


Re: It’s not all outside agitators
Clashes between police and protesters were absent Friday from downtown Portland for the second straight night
At the time of this posting, other cities were ratcheted up, as ANTIFA commuted to different cities in which is to besiege. As of late, the violent attacks have increased and have not subsided since the Feds moved out
This is indefensible and undermines the cause they claim to be protesting for.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4230 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 7:47 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4235 by PaulK, posted 08-07-2020 1:37 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
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