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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2671 of 3212 (845967)
12-24-2018 5:07 AM


Trump's Wall and Drugs
Trump wants a wall with steel slats, something like this prototype:

How, precisely, does such a wall prevent drugs from entering the country? For example, here are some cocaine bricks. How hard will it be to pass such bricks through a slat wall:

True border security requires increased personnel, improved technology, and in some places maybe a wall or fence of some kind. Especially at border crossings, where most drugs enter the country, it means more technology so we can check all vehicles crossing the border instead of just one in five.

Security for ancient nations meant walls. History is littered with them, like Hadrian's Wall and the Great Wall of China. Modern border security, where appropriate, is infrared and regular cameras atop towers spaced apart as geography demands and monitored automatically, alerting border personnel's screens when human activity is detected. Miles of unattended walls are just an invitation for human ingenuity.

--Percy


    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3748
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2672 of 3212 (846027)
12-26-2018 11:31 PM


Link to "How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business"
How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business

Hat tip to https://talkingpointsmemo.com/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-big-picture-10

Moose


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2673 of 3212 (846238)
01-01-2019 7:26 AM


Literally *and* Seriously
It was often said during and after the 2016 presidential campaign that the major mistake Democrats made was to take Trump literally but not seriously, because Trump supporters only took him seriously but not literally. The pundits kept telling us that while Trump supporters enjoyed chanting "Build the wall" and "Lock her up," they didn't actually believe Trump meant an actual 20-foot concrete wall 2000-miles long on our southern border with Mexico, or that political rivals like Hillary Clinton should be imprisoned.

But both Democrats and Republicans were wrong. Trump's words should have been taken both literally and seriously, both then and now. Trump tweeted as recently as yesterday that the wall could be concrete: "An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media." So much for steel slats (also a stupid idea, but at least not concrete). Trump says whatever he feels will excite his base at the time without regard to truth, or even with regard to consistency with past tweets, even those from earlier in the day.

At some intuitive level (I would never accuse Trump of rational thinking) Trump understands that retaining his base is crucial to his reelection. He shows no interest in and certainly no ability at expanding his base, and so his reelection will hinge on the same strategy that originally elected him, persuading enough people in the middle to give him a chance at making Washington work for them.

So to be literal and serious myself, Trump is a narcissistic, cruel, amoral lying, cheating, misogynistic, racist xenophobe. If I've forgotten anything I apologize.

By the way, one of Trump's recent lies is that there is a 10-foot wall around the Obama house in Washington DC. Here's a couple images, one of the front door, the other of the parking area to the side. The shed in the parking lot wasn't originally there and was added for the Secret Service detail:

I was able to find Obama's house using Google Streets and know the exact address, but no newspaper article has ever published it, so I won't either. There is supposedly a security checkpoint at each end of the road.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2674 by dwise1, posted 01-01-2019 6:00 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2677 by dwise1, posted 01-01-2019 11:44 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 2674 of 3212 (846258)
01-01-2019 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2673 by Percy
01-01-2019 7:26 AM


Re: Literally *and* Seriously
Well, the problem with taking Trump both literally and seriously is that his story keeps changing. That problem is compounded by his appearing to suffer from an Orwellian disorder in which history keeps getting rewritten according to his most recent lie.

Also, so much of what he says is intended for the immediate consumption of his immediate audience with no thought being given to ever following through, let alone what he had said or promised before -- I've been hearing the word, "transactional", a lot lately, which seems to describe that. During the 2016 campaign, I remember a newly recruited Trump supporter explain how he had won her over. Much of what he was saying and promising bothered her greatly, so she approached him and asked about those things. He assured her that he was only saying those things because that was what his audience wanted and that he never intended to actually follow through on any of them. What bothers me more about that is that she had been persuaded by his frank admission of complete and total insincerity and deliberate deception ... unless he was just lying yet again by telling her what she wanted to hear.

This could even provide an evolutionary analogy for explaining how a particular trait can be very beneficial and successful in one environment, but fatal in a different environment. Trump's traits of convenient lies to deceive the current audience always worked well for him in the past when no recording of those transactions existed or were limited in their distribution; ie, those lies were made in private. Now he's in a new environment where there is a very public record of every lie he tells and which is very widely distributed -- only his base which feeds from the Fake News Network (AKA "FOX") is sheltered from that public record. I think that a lot of Trump's flailing about is because for the first time he's being held accountable for what he has said and he can't figure out how to handle it.

BTW, one of the first WH positions to go away was the recorder, the stenographers whose job it has been with all Presidents of recording and writing transcripts of every conversation that the President has. The rationale for eliminating that position was that they'd be replaced by video recordings, but we've already seen those videos being edited and doctored. Of course, in addition to Trump having no clue why such a record would be needed, there would also be the desire to eliminate such evidence.

Another problem presented by Trump's new environment is his higher visibility as well as his now being a vastly greater threat to society and to the world. As long as he remained a small potatoes grifter, he could escape notice and be deemed too low a priority for investigation and criminal prosecution. Now every aspect of his activities will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken based on those investigations. The irony is that if he been content to remain small potatoes then he and his family would never have ended up in prison.

The thing about the Wall is that it is a metaphor and it was a very good and powerful metaphor in the campaign. But apparently Trump and his base are too dumb and/or ignorant to be able to understand anything about metaphors, so all they can think of is a literal wall, which is not only a monumentally stupid idea, but nearly worthless for providing border security by itself.

Trump keeps talking about how hard it will be to climb over his Wall, but that's not how it will be breached. We have a long history of smugglers digging tunnels under the existing walls and fences. They can go around the wall, which is why our Coast Guard is being kept busy. They come bring their goods (eg, drugs, trafficked people) through our many ports of entry which are nowhere close to Trump's Wall. Most undocumenteds enter the country on regular visas and then overstay those visas; none of them would ever be deterred by Trump's Wall.

And because Trump and his base are racist, they only worry about the immigrants who's skin color isn't pale enough to suit them (ignoring Trump's own cheap spray tan job (must be a Trump brand)). There are reportedly more illegal Canadian immigrants than Mexican/Central American, so why isn't ICE conducting an intensive Operation Wetback type of campaign to round up and deport those Canadians, eh? Maybe because they're too white to matter? And there are also reports of large numbers of illegal immigrants from Ireland and not only aren't they being rounded up, but recently Paul Ryan tried to get the number of visas increased for even more Irish to come in and overstay.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2673 by Percy, posted 01-01-2019 7:26 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2675 by AZPaul3, posted 01-01-2019 7:10 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 2676 by Coragyps, posted 01-01-2019 7:51 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2675 of 3212 (846261)
01-01-2019 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2674 by dwise1
01-01-2019 6:00 PM


Re: Literally *and* Seriously
There are reportedly more illegal Canadian immigrants than Mexican/Central American, so why isn't ICE conducting an intensive Operation Wetback type of campaign to round up and deport those Canadians, eh?

Skin color has nothing to do with it. Canadians don't bring drugs, rape and disease with them. They bring maple syrup, apologies and geese. And besides that, they're white.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2674 by dwise1, posted 01-01-2019 6:00 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5398
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2676 of 3212 (846263)
01-01-2019 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2674 by dwise1
01-01-2019 6:00 PM


Re: Literally *and* Seriously
And remember what happened in 1848 when they let all them Irish in after that ‘tater thing..... /s
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2674 by dwise1, posted 01-01-2019 6:00 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3633
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2677 of 3212 (846264)
01-01-2019 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2673 by Percy
01-01-2019 7:26 AM


Re: Literally *and* Seriously
I forgot to mention that we've already tried Trump's Wall and it has been proven to not work.

The Secure Fence Act of 2006 under Dubya. Set to cost $50 billion over 25 years, a lot of it is tied up in well over 100 eminent domain lawsuits. And the ones it's supposed to keep out just circumvent it in many ways, such that additional "virtual fence" technology is required anyway.

Trump's Wall is like trickle-down economics and ignorance: We've tried it already so we already know that it doesn't work.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2673 by Percy, posted 01-01-2019 7:26 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1682
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2678 of 3212 (846344)
01-04-2019 3:33 PM


Trump on Afghanistan
quote:
So you take a look at other countries, Pakistan is there, they should be fighting. But Russia should be fighting, the reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia, they were right to be there, the problem is it was a tough fight and literally they went bankrupt, they went into being called Russia again as opposed to the Soviet Union

So I can't figure it out. Is Trump simply incapable of explaining concepts in a coherent way, or is the above an accurate representation of his level of understanding?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2679 by DrJones*, posted 01-04-2019 4:23 PM caffeine has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1915
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 2679 of 3212 (846348)
01-04-2019 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2678 by caffeine
01-04-2019 3:33 PM


Re: Trump on Afghanistan
So I can't figure it out. Is Trump simply incapable of explaining concepts in a coherent way, or is the above an accurate representation of his level of understanding?

third option: that's russia's official line, therefore it is his

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...end-soviet-war-afghanistan

Last month, Russian lawmakers took another big step in the same direction by approving a draft resolution that seeks to justify the Soviet Union’s war in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989. The formal vote on the measure — proposed jointly by lawmakers from the United Russia and Communist parties — will be held before the 30th anniversary of the withdrawal of Soviet troops on Feb. 15. Hailing the decision, Communist lawmaker Nikolai Kharitonov called it a victory for “historical truth.”

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2678 by caffeine, posted 01-04-2019 3:33 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2690 by caffeine, posted 01-07-2019 4:46 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 2680 of 3212 (846366)
01-05-2019 7:54 AM


Trump's Wall and Funding the Government
One thing that isn't mentioned often enough in op-ed pieces is that Trump's wall has nothing to do with funding the government. Trump wants his wall, and so he is holding the government hostage until he gets it. He's even threatened to invoke a national emergency to build his wall.

Funding the government has nothing to do with any wall. Technically all it involves is raising the debt limit so that the government can continue spending money. We reached the debt limit faster because of Trump's tax cuts for corporations and the rich.

Look up debt limit. You won't find anything about a wall.

By the way, about Trump's threat to invoke a national emergency, although this would likely invite many legal challenges, never forget that Hitler invoked a national emergency to grant himself dictatorial powers that he never relinquished. Our democracy is flirting with disaster.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2682 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2019 3:23 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 2681 of 3212 (846375)
01-05-2019 12:56 PM


The Complicit Senate
From Trump: 'I don’t care' that most federal employees working without pay 'are Democrats':

quote:
The House passed spending bills this week to reopen the government without border wall funding, but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has refused to bring the House-passed measure to the floor for a vote, saying he wouldn’t introduce any legislation that didn’t have the public endorsement of the White House.

When did the Senate become a department of the executive branch?

Surely McConnell knows there is such a thing as the override. The House passes the bill, then the Senate passes the bill, then Trump vetoes the bill, then House and Senate override the veto with a 2/3 vote in each chamber, which they should easily be able to achieve if the Republicans truly want to open the government and actually understand that funding the government has nothing to do with funding a wall.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2695 by ramoss, posted 01-12-2019 1:03 AM Percy has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6487
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2682 of 3212 (846393)
01-05-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2680 by Percy
01-05-2019 7:54 AM


Re: Trump's Wall and Funding the Government
We are much closer to a constitutional crisis than most people realize. I do think that donnie is trying to push this issue to national emergency so that he can try to usurp additional powers. If that happens there is nothing the congress can do at this point. They have conceded too much power already.
The key will be to see how individual states stand and how the military stands. He is not well loved by military brass or rank and file, but enough are trumpers to mean a huge potential for violent conflict.
I fear Putin is close to getting what he bought and paid for. The destruction of the United States as a world power. The tipping point is near.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2680 by Percy, posted 01-05-2019 7:54 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2683 by AZPaul3, posted 01-05-2019 3:57 PM Theodoric has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 2683 of 3212 (846402)
01-05-2019 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2682 by Theodoric
01-05-2019 3:23 PM


Re: Trump's Wall and Funding the Government
The key will be to see how individual states stand and how the military stands. He is not well loved by military brass or rank and file, but enough are trumpers to mean a huge potential for violeny conflict.

I won't say you're wrong, but I have a different, maybe more optimistic, view.

This is a test. Can the organs of governance as structured in the Constitution preserve the ship of state through this fractured period of our society? We've been through this before and had to fight a devastating war to persevere. We have also been through these bouts of bigoted selfish populism before, though not as caustic as we are seeing today.

I am optimistic we can persevere again once we have rid ourselves of that jingoistic narcissistic moron in the Oval Office. The question is how much damage to the nation, and to the world, will we suffer in his wake.

I fear Putin is close to getting what he bought and paid for. The destruction of the United States as a world power. The tipping point is near.

Hey, we did it to them a generation ago. Payback's a bitch.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2682 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2019 3:23 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2684 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2019 5:09 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6487
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2684 of 3212 (846419)
01-05-2019 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2683 by AZPaul3
01-05-2019 3:57 PM


Re: Trump's Wall and Funding the Government
I am optimistic we can persevere again once we have rid ourselves of that jingoistic narcissistic moron in the Oval Office. The question is how much damage to the nation, and to the world, will we suffer in his wake.

Can the union survive two more years of him, or six and still be the same union? I doubt it.

Hey, we did it to them a generation ago.

In actuality they did it to themselves. The economic system they chose was unsustainable. The economic system they have in Russia currently is also unsustainable. Our economic system is sustainable it is our social system that is unsustainable.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2683 by AZPaul3, posted 01-05-2019 3:57 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2685 by AZPaul3, posted 01-05-2019 6:22 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4385
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2685 of 3212 (846428)
01-05-2019 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2684 by Theodoric
01-05-2019 5:09 PM


Re: Trump's Wall and Funding the Government
Can the union survive two more years of him, or six and still be the same union? I doubt it.

We shall see.

Hey, we did it to them a generation ago.
In actuality they did it to themselves. The economic system they chose was unsustainable. The economic system they have in Russia currently is also unsustainable. Our economic system is sustainable it is our social system that is unsustainable.

Almost right. Their economic system sucked, for sure. But we pushed all their military and geo-political buttons with the intention of further destabilizing their screwed-up system as they tried to play catch-up.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2684 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2019 5:09 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
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