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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1962
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 2746 of 2766 (848429)
02-05-2019 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2745 by dwise1
02-05-2019 11:09 AM


Re: What I'd Like to See in the State of the Union Address
One thought would be for all observers to yell, "Liar!", every time Trump lies.

I'll settle for McConnell's and Pence's and Trump's heads exploding. That video would become the world's most popular screen saver.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2745 by dwise1, posted 02-05-2019 11:09 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2747 of 2766 (848434)
02-05-2019 11:48 AM


The Latest From Prager U
You all know me. I claim to be a moderate. Neither too Liberal nor too Conservative. Recently, Prager University, a conservative website, published this response to Liberals & Conservatives vs "The Left".

Essentially they claim the following:

Transcript writes:

Do you and I share same goals?

If we do, we can disagree—even strongly disagree, and still have a productive discussion. We might even reach a compromise.

But if we don’t share the same goals? Then what?

Then, rhetorically speaking, we’re at war. And only one side can win.

Let me explain.

My parents and brother lean more to the liberal side of the political spectrum than I do. We argue. We slightly nudge each other. We change opinions a little bit. And then we go back to Scrabble.

They were very upset when President Trump withdrew from the Paris climate accords. I was happy. We argued about it, but it was all good because we share the same goals.

We all want clean air and water for our children. We all want to develop clean energy; we want America’s economy to prosper; we want to be less reliant on fossil fuels.

I thought the accords were a bad deal for America. The best way to lower carbon emissions, in my opinion, is to let the free market and American ingenuity loose on the problem. They, in contrast, think the government needs to step in, fund the research, and keep the corporations in line.

Doesn't matter, because we have the same goal: a healthy planet.

We also disagree on gun control. My brother is a little more with me, but my dad wants a lot more regulation because he wants fewer school shootings. So do I. So does my brother. But I believe if a potential killer knew he’d encounter teachers and administrators well-trained in the use of weapons, we’d have less shootings. Different solutions. Shared goal.

I’ve always thought that this is how America is supposed to work. Liberals and conservatives respectfully arguing over the best solution to a shared goal.

But now there’s a third party in the game: the left. And they’re changing the rules.

When I was growing up, the left was on the fringe. But now they’ve moved into the mainstream. They’ve pretty much taken over our educational system. They’re in the media. In corporate HR departments. And, more and more, sad to say, in the Democratic Party.

The left doesn’t share the same goals that liberals and conservatives do. They have a whole different set of goals.

Let me give you some examples.

Raising kids without a gender identity or encouraging them to question their sexual identity. This, to me, is a form of child abuse. I don’t care who’s doing it—parents, teachers, doctors. Their goal is not my goal.

Here’s another one: Demonizing white people and males for the world's problems is not part of my value system. There is no shared goal in that.

I believe in merit and character over race. But now it's cool to say that white males have done all the bad things in the world.

I have two little boys. I get angry just thinking about people telling them they're responsible for racism and sexism—beautiful little children who just dance in the kitchen and smile. So that's not a shared goal.

Here’s a third example: People can differ about how many legal immigrants America should allow into the country. But when it comes to whether America should have “open” borders—well, there is no shared goal there. A country with open borders ceases to be a distinct country. And I want America to remain America.

All these ideas—and I could give you a dozen more—are coming from the left. They want to turn the history of Western Civilization, of America—a history I'm very proud of—into a highlight reel of human errors. These ideas threaten everything I cherish—my family, my community, my country.

And what does the left offer in its place? Nothing constructive that I can see. What are their goals? Kids with no clear sexual identity; group-think based on race, gender, and class; no national pride or borders. Are you okay with that?

My issue is not with liberals like my brother and my dad and a lot of my friends. We can argue until the cows come home. My issue is with the left because we don’t share goals.

This war of goals isn’t coming. It’s here. You need to decide which side you’re on: the liberals’ and conservatives’ side, or the left’s.

Your future depends on it.

Now I know that many of you here are liberals. Faith claims you are Marxists, but I don't see that. There are, in addition, many who are identifiably conservative yet who are anti-Trump. If this video makes a point, it would seem to me to be the point that the political spectrum has 4 distinct segments.
1) Populist Nationalists-strongly pro-Trump. (a personality cult)
2) Right-Leaning Conservatives
3)Left-leaning Liberals (most of you, in my opinion..I classify myself between 2 and 3..)
4) The Left. Cultural Marxism, perhaps? What does everyone think>?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 2748 by ringo, posted 02-05-2019 12:17 PM Phat has responded
 Message 2751 by DrJones*, posted 02-05-2019 2:25 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 2752 by PaulK, posted 02-05-2019 2:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2753 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-05-2019 3:49 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16147
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 2748 of 2766 (848438)
02-05-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2747 by Phat
02-05-2019 11:48 AM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
Phat writes:

What does everyone think>?


Did Faith write that transcript?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2747 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 11:48 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2749 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 12:57 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2749 of 2766 (848440)
02-05-2019 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2748 by ringo
02-05-2019 12:17 PM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
I looked up Prager U.
quote:

PragerU, short for Prager University, is an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic and philosophical topics from a conservative or right-wing perspective. PragerU has been generously funded by two of the richest men in the United States, billionaire brothers Dan and Farris Wilks, who made their fortunes in fracking.(...)PragerU, short for Prager University, is an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic and philosophical topics from a conservative or right-wing[1] perspective. The videos are posted on YouTube and usually feature a speaker who lectures for about five minutes.[2] PragerU is not an academic institution, does not hold classes, and does not grant certifications or diplomas.[3]

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2748 by ringo, posted 02-05-2019 12:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2750 by ringo, posted 02-05-2019 1:02 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16147
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 2750 of 2766 (848441)
02-05-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2749 by Phat
02-05-2019 12:57 PM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
So it is the kind of place where Faith gets her ideas.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2749 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 12:57 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1803
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


(3)
Message 2751 of 2766 (848444)
02-05-2019 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2747 by Phat
02-05-2019 11:48 AM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
I'd say that the author while calling out "The Left" for hijacking liberalism has ignored "The Right/Trump/Nazis/sister fucking hillbillies" hijacking conservatism.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2747 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 11:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14720
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2752 of 2766 (848445)
02-05-2019 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2747 by Phat
02-05-2019 11:48 AM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
To call it grossly slanted would be an understatement.

Dismantling the agencies and regulations that protect the environment is not a good way to ensure “clean air and water for our children”

Trump didn’t just withdraw from the Paris Accords- he’s a denialism on climate change, and is trying to encourage the use of coal as fuel.
Lowering carbon emissions isn’t something he wants to do.

So I don’t see a lot of interest in actually pursuing the “shared goal” here.

quote:

We also disagree on gun control. My brother is a little more with me, but my dad wants a lot more regulation because he wants fewer school shootings. So do I. So does my brother. But I believe if a potential killer knew he’d encounter teachers and administrators well-trained in the use of weapons, we’d have less shootings. Different solutions. Shared goal.

The same pattern seems to be seen here. The pursuit of the goal is subordinated to ideology. More guns don’t solve the problem, and could easily create even greater risks.

There is no point in talking about shared goals if you are going to put something else ahead of them, if you think that the shared values are ones that should be sacrificed for others.

I’m not impressed with the idea that we shouldn’t do more to overcome the racism and the legacy of racism in society either. There are some on the left who go too far, but then there are Nazis and White Supremacists too. And I can’t help thinking that those who go too far seeking the good are at least a little better than those who embrace evil.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2747 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 11:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1962
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.2


(1)
Message 2753 of 2766 (848446)
02-05-2019 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2747 by Phat
02-05-2019 11:48 AM


Re: The Latest From Prager U
But I believe if a potential killer knew he’d encounter teachers and administrators well-trained in the use of weapons, we’d have less shootings. Different solutions. Shared goal.

This is a good one. I mostly hear this solution proposed by people who do not work in schools.

I think most teachers and administrators who want to arm themselves and get extensive training for dealing with active shooters in their schools will quickly realize that the police may misidentify them as the active shooter.

How many hours of training by armed response experts will be required before these armed teachers and administrators are certified to be qualified to protect our children from an active shooter in a school setting?

Who is responsible when a student gets shot by an armed teacher? If a teacher gets shot by police who is responsible?

I guess taxpayers would put up multi-million dollar bonds so the city, county, state doesn't get sued when students get accidentally shot by armed teachers and administrators that were supposed to be protecting them.

I guess asking these questions makes me a.....?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2747 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 11:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2755 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2019 4:19 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 2754 of 2766 (848447)
02-05-2019 3:52 PM


The Trump Effect and the State Of The Union
The only reason I posted in the Trump Presidency thread is that we have such a polarization of political and ideological thought in this country. Tonights State Of The Union should provide fodder for the course of action in the next two years.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 2760 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2019 6:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2762 by ringo, posted 02-06-2019 2:16 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1870
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 2755 of 2766 (848452)
02-05-2019 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2753 by Tanypteryx
02-05-2019 3:49 PM


Re: guns in schools
Why don't we have the same gates they put in airports and courtrooms? No weapons get through.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2753 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-05-2019 3:49 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2756 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-05-2019 4:47 PM xongsmith has not yet responded
 Message 2759 by kjsimons, posted 02-05-2019 5:17 PM xongsmith has responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1962
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.2


(1)
Message 2756 of 2766 (848453)
02-05-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2755 by xongsmith
02-05-2019 4:19 PM


Re: guns in schools
Why don't we have the same gates they put in airports and courtrooms? No weapons get through.

Yep, I agree. A single entry point with metal detector, and trained armed personal. X-ray for backpacks. Expense vs children's lives.

It will not solve the whole problem, but that's not an excuse to do something stupider, like arming teachers.

Universal background checks won't solve everything, but they will stop some people from legally acquiring firearms they cannot legally posses.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2755 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2019 4:19 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2758 by Tangle, posted 02-05-2019 5:13 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18262
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 2757 of 2766 (848455)
02-05-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2745 by dwise1
02-05-2019 11:09 AM


Re: What I'd Like to See in the State of the Union Address
dwise1 writes:

One thing that we absolutely must not do would be to turn the watching the SOTU into a drinking game, taking a drink each time Trump lies. I would not want to lose anyone to alcohol poisoning.

Everyone who thinks Trump just lied should raise their hand. Those who are wrong would have to take a drink. At the end of the night all the Republicans in the room would be well lubricated.

I won't be watching the SOTU address. I'm thinking of watching the response, but I've watched several in the past and they're always Godawful. You go from a huge chamber of Representatives and Senators and the Supreme Court and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and honored guests and applause (from a little under half the audience) to a quiet, tiny, empty room. Even if Stacy Abrams gives the speech of her life it will likely still fall flat. It could be as bad as when Chuck and Nancy delivered their response to Trump a few weeks ago. If the president gets an audience then so should the person who responds.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2745 by dwise1, posted 02-05-2019 11:09 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 2758 of 2766 (848457)
02-05-2019 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2756 by Tanypteryx
02-05-2019 4:47 PM


Re: guns in schools
Maybe a 15' wall around all schools...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2756 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-05-2019 4:47 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 663
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 2759 of 2766 (848458)
02-05-2019 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2755 by xongsmith
02-05-2019 4:19 PM


Re: guns in schools
xongsmith writes:

Why don't we have the same gates they put in airports and courtrooms? No weapons get through.


Are you being sarcastic? Currently, when tested, 70% of weapons get through TSA checkpoints.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2755 by xongsmith, posted 02-05-2019 4:19 PM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2761 by xongsmith, posted 02-06-2019 1:56 AM kjsimons has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5929
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 2760 of 2766 (848461)
02-05-2019 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2754 by Phat
02-05-2019 3:52 PM


Re: The Trump Effect and the State Of The Union
Prager University is the brainchild of Dennis Prager. He is a well-known extreme right nut job. Fact check anything he says.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2754 by Phat, posted 02-05-2019 3:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
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