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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6907
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2866 of 3790 (852589)
05-14-2019 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 2865 by 1.61803
05-14-2019 10:35 AM


Re: Barr Appoints Prosecutor to Investigate Russia Probe Origins
And no one has yet mentioned how Durham's report will undoubtably be strategically redacted.

Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned. If you take nothing else from the Senate's confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, take that much. -- Kai Wright

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2865 by 1.61803, posted 05-14-2019 10:35 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2867 by dwise1, posted 05-14-2019 1:31 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4054
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2867 of 3790 (852595)
05-14-2019 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2866 by Chiroptera
05-14-2019 11:32 AM


Re: Barr Appoints Prosecutor to Investigate Russia Probe Origins
And "appropriately" summarized by Barr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2866 by Chiroptera, posted 05-14-2019 11:32 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4854
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2868 of 3790 (852638)
05-14-2019 7:30 PM


FYI
FYI.

From what I’ve gathered from some recent reading (below) on congressional subpoena powers facing executive privilege, both parties discuss the issues to see if any accommodation can be had before resorting to that third branch of government with which they are supposed to be equal. With 20 some subpoenas demanding documents this negotiation could take several years.

If an impatient House decides to go to the Courts that effort usually, historically, begins in the District court not the Supremes. Again historically, the federal courts have tried to keep such cases at arm’s length which means they want to think on it for a spell. For a long spell. Hoping the continuing discussions of the other two branches will result in some accommodation still before the court is compelled, as a matter of judicial temperament, to act.

Have a seat folks. This is going to take a while and may not be resolved before the election.

Trump and his legal staff are going to be in a pressure cooker and up to their eyeballs in briefs and position papers for the duration. Those negotiations will not be easy.

I would think that would make life rather difficult on someone running for president.

Congressional Subpoena Power and Executive Privilege: The Coming Showdown Between the Branches

Edited by AZPaul3, : fixed link


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6907
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 2869 of 3790 (853192)
05-23-2019 11:15 AM


Pelosi and impeachment
From this morning's New York Times.

Pelosi Pushes Go-Slow Strategy on Impeachment as She Goads Trump

Nothing new in this article, but sometimes it's nice to get a quick summary to remind us where we stand at the moment.

Basically, Pelosi has been trying to prevent impeachment proceedings from proceeding at the moment, preferring to let the current investigations run their course.

Pelosi wants instead to trumpet the Democratic legislative initiatives that the House has been passing. However, it's the Trump cult that has been crowding out that news from the media by focusing on the investigations.

She is also concerned about the newer members of the House that were elected from marginal districts. But some of these have been saying that they, too, are open to impeachment.

In fact, even some members of Pelosi 's moderate coalition are starting to move toward supporting impeachment as a reaction of Trump's "scorched earth" refusal to cooperate in any way.

Me, it's hard to say which would be strategically better for the Democrats, impeachment or not. However much I disagree with Pelosi on a lot of policy matters, I do have to recognize that she is highly skilled in the politics game, so I'm willing to trust she may know what she's doing here.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2870 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2019 11:40 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 2870 of 3790 (853202)
05-23-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2869 by Chiroptera
05-23-2019 11:15 AM


Re: Pelosi and impeachment
Nancy Pelosi is the most politically adept person in the US at this time. I think the Dems should let her continue to guide them for now. I know it is hard to sit back, but the Democratic Party is not doing nothing. I do believe she is playing 3 dimensional chase while donnie is trying to put his socks on.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Edited by Admin, : Fix typos.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2869 by Chiroptera, posted 05-23-2019 11:15 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6907
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2871 of 3790 (853328)
05-26-2019 11:15 AM


Paul Krugman on Trump's last tantrum
From The New York Times:

Trump Tantrums the Dems Out of a Trap

Krugman explains how it had appeared that Trump was finally ready to discuss an actual infrastructure policy, which posed a danger to the Democrats since we do need to invest in infrastructure -- desperately! -- so the Democrats would probably have to give him a policy win.

Fortunately (in Krugman's opinion -- I don't think it's so fortunate) Trump himself torpedoed the meeting, confirming once again how unfit he is for any public office.

Most notable quote:

And the attempt to portray Pelosi as out of control is so ludicrous that only totally deluded people – i.e., around a third of the country – could possibly believe it.

If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2872 by jar, posted 05-27-2019 10:33 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32358
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 2872 of 3790 (853404)
05-27-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2871 by Chiroptera
05-26-2019 11:15 AM


Re: Paul Krugman on Trump's last tantrum

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2871 by Chiroptera, posted 05-26-2019 11:15 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 2874 by Chiroptera, posted 05-27-2019 10:49 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2873 of 3790 (853405)
05-27-2019 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2872 by jar
05-27-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Paul Krugman on Trump's last tantrum
The original
https://www.newspapers.com/...encken_article_26_jul_1920_the

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2872 by jar, posted 05-27-2019 10:33 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6907
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2874 of 3790 (853406)
05-27-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2872 by jar
05-27-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Paul Krugman on Trump's last tantrum
Yeah, since 2016 I've been thinking of another quote by Mencken:

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2872 by jar, posted 05-27-2019 10:33 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19640
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2875 of 3790 (853616)
05-29-2019 1:21 PM


Mueller Speaks
Today Mueller read a brief 8 or 9 minute statement. He said that he is closing the Special Counsel's office, and that he is resigning from the DOJ and returning to private life. He also summarized the two volumes of his report. His statement can be found here: Text of Mueller Statement

About Volume I, Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, he said they found broad and conclusive evidence of that interference and that the American people should not ignore this continuing threat. Concerning the Trump campaign response to Russian activity he said there was "insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy."

About Volume II, the obstruction charges, he was completely clear and transparent where Barr was not. He said if they could have cleared Trump they would have, but that what they found made that impossible. He said that from the beginning they recognized that they could not charge a sitting president, but that they could conduct an investigation while minds were fresh and evidence warm in case others were guilty of obstruction, and because "the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing," i.e., impeachment. This was a rather stunning rejection of Barr's decision to absolve Trump of all obstruction charges.

What's most important here is not what Mueller said, because this is what those who understand simple English have been saying all along, including hundreds of prosecutors. What's most important is who said it. Mueller stood with the side that possesses adequate reading comprehension skills.

What Mueller doesn't seem to grasp is the ease with which his report is being successfully misrepresented to large segments of the American public. Many actually believe that the Mueller report absolved Trump of both conspiracy and obstruction charges.

Mueller's role is unique because he wrote the report. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and so forth can tell the American people what the report actually says until they are blue in the face, it doesn't seem to help. They are impotent in the face of the misinformation campaign being staged by Trump and his accomplices. Only Mueller telling the American people what he wrote in the report has a chance of being believed.

One very important issue not addressed by Mueller or by any politician or by any reporting I've seen is the extent to which the finding of insufficient evidence of conspiracy with Russia was due to the obstruction of justice efforts.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2876 by dwise1, posted 05-29-2019 1:51 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2877 by Taq, posted 05-29-2019 2:18 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 2880 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-30-2019 12:15 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4054
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2876 of 3790 (853620)
05-29-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2875 by Percy
05-29-2019 1:21 PM


Re: Mueller Speaks
What Mueller doesn't seem to grasp is the ease with which his report is being successfully misrepresented to large segments of the American public. Many actually believe that the Mueller report absolved Trump of both conspiracy and obstruction charges.

After Rep. Rep. Justin Amash's townhall meeting, journalists talked with members of the audience. One, an engaged Republican voter who made a point of keeping up with the news, was amazed at what she had just learned from Amash, because everything she had heard was that there was nothing bad in the Mueller Report. Of course, she was getting all her news from conservative sources (eg, FOX).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2875 by Percy, posted 05-29-2019 1:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8262
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 2877 of 3790 (853624)
05-29-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2875 by Percy
05-29-2019 1:21 PM


Re: Mueller Speaks
Percy writes:

What Mueller doesn't seem to grasp is the ease with which his report is being successfully misrepresented to large segments of the American public. Many actually believe that the Mueller report absolved Trump of both conspiracy and obstruction charges.

No amount of evidence will convince Trump supporters of reality. It is harder to fall out of bed than it is to convince Trump supporters that Trump was exonerated.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2875 by Percy, posted 05-29-2019 1:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2878 by xongsmith, posted 05-29-2019 4:56 PM Taq has responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1939
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 2878 of 3790 (853634)
05-29-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2877 by Taq
05-29-2019 2:18 PM


Re: Mueller Speaks
Taq - I think you need an edit...

It is harder to fall out of bed than it is to convince Trump supporters that Trump was exonerated.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2877 by Taq, posted 05-29-2019 2:18 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2879 by Taq, posted 05-29-2019 5:09 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8262
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 2879 of 3790 (853636)
05-29-2019 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2878 by xongsmith
05-29-2019 4:56 PM


Re: Mueller Speaks
xongsmith writes:

Taq - I think you need an edit...

It may be poorly worded, but still correct. Falling out of bed is the harder task out of the two. If I said that convincing a Trump supporter that Trump was exonerated was easier than falling out of bed it might be easier to understand.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2878 by xongsmith, posted 05-29-2019 4:56 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5983
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2880 of 3790 (853641)
05-30-2019 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 2875 by Percy
05-29-2019 1:21 PM


Re: Mueller Speaks
"If we had confidence that the president clearly did not committed a crime, we would have said so." -- Robert Mueller

Probably the most poignant comment of that whole speech...


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2875 by Percy, posted 05-29-2019 1:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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