Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8945 total)
27 online now:
Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (1 member, 26 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Upcoming Birthdays: ONESOlivia, perfect
Post Volume: Total: 865,370 Year: 20,406/19,786 Month: 803/2,023 Week: 311/392 Day: 1/41 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3511 of 3596 (864794)
10-16-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3510 by Taq
10-16-2019 5:25 PM


The not yet a man.
Taq writes:

The man isn't fit for office and is an ongoing threat to our national security, regardless of what party he is from.

The man is not even fit to be in polite company. He is quite simply a boor.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3510 by Taq, posted 10-16-2019 5:25 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3512 by Taq, posted 10-16-2019 5:50 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3512 of 3596 (864795)
10-16-2019 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3511 by jar
10-16-2019 5:43 PM


Re: The not yet a man.
jar writes:

He is quite simply a boor.

I could accept a boor who was competent and wasn't corrupt.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3511 by jar, posted 10-16-2019 5:43 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 3513 of 3596 (864835)
10-17-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3508 by vimesey
10-16-2019 2:36 PM


The Ukraine Crimes
No one's this thick. This is probably just a poorly conceived "muddying the waters" effort.

Discussion has moved off the original subtitle about Abiy Ahmed winning the Nobel Peace Prize, so I've changed the subtitle to "The Ukraine Crimes," of which there are two:

  • Trump attempted to enlist the assistance of a foreign power in digging up (inventing, actually) dirt on a political rival.

  • Trump conditioned U.S. military aid upon receipt of that assistance.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3508 by vimesey, posted 10-16-2019 2:36 PM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3514 by Theodoric, posted 10-17-2019 2:20 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3516 by JoeT, posted 10-17-2019 3:34 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6799
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 3514 of 3596 (864836)
10-17-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3513 by Percy
10-17-2019 1:51 PM


Re: The Ukraine Crimes
No one's this thick.

ICANT self proclaims that he is. As would, seemingly, the vast majority of dumpster fire's supporters and that includes all of the GOP Reps and Senators.

So a lot of self proclaimed thick people out there.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3513 by Percy, posted 10-17-2019 1:51 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3517 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-17-2019 4:42 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6810
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 3515 of 3596 (864837)
10-17-2019 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3508 by vimesey
10-16-2019 2:36 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
The literal interpretation of specific words is not the only way to convey meaning, intent and message. Certainly that is one way, but it is not the only way. You do understand that, don't you ?

It's rather odd the rightwing wasn't this concerned about literal meaning when, say, they were screaming about Ilhan Omar's anti-Semitism.


Hard as it is to fathom, Mr President, just because you’re the leader of the free world doesn’t entitle you to a free pass. Unfortunately, just a free press. -- Neil Cavuto

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3508 by vimesey, posted 10-16-2019 2:36 PM vimesey has not yet responded

  
JoeT
Junior Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 11-29-2018


Message 3516 of 3596 (864839)
10-17-2019 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3513 by Percy
10-17-2019 1:51 PM


Re: The Ukraine Crimes
These are two things that Trump's chief of staff just admitted to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3513 by Percy, posted 10-17-2019 1:51 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2330
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.4


(1)
Message 3517 of 3596 (864850)
10-17-2019 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3514 by Theodoric
10-17-2019 2:20 PM


Re: The Ukraine Crimes
No one's this thick.

ICANT self proclaims that he is. As would, seemingly, the vast majority of dumpster fire's supporters and that includes all of the GOP Reps and Senators.
So a lot of self proclaimed thick people out there.

Every fucking one of them thinks Trump shits chocolate syrup and they all consider themselves connoisseurs of chocolate.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3514 by Theodoric, posted 10-17-2019 2:20 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 3518 of 3596 (864998)
10-19-2019 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3505 by JonF
10-16-2019 2:12 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
Hi Jon

JonF writes:

No, just a native English speaker who can draw obvious conclusions.

You can even examine evidence and draw a conclusion but neither conclusion is necessarily correct.

JonF writes:

I want weapons.

Where is that statement made in the phone call?

I find where President Zelenskyy said:

quote:
We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

You can find this statement in the third response from President Zelenskyy @ https://www.npr.org/...ent-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader

But I don't read where he said "I want weapons."

It seems to me that your intentions were to conclude that Zelenskyyy said 'give me weapons.' and Trump said, OK if you will get me information. Because that is what you want to believe.

See where interpreting someone's intentions can get you.

Just stick with the facts.

Zeleneskyy was not even ready to purchase the Javelins at the time of the phone call.

JonF writes:

I want a favor.

Where did Trump use those words?

In the quote below I am going to underline the exact words the President used.

quote:
The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.
This is found in the fourth response of the President https://www.npr.org/...ent-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader

Trump started the sentence stating he would like for Zeleneskyy to do a favor because of all the things that had gone on that Ukraine had knowledge of. He ended this response with "if that's possible.

This was specifically talking about what happened in the Russian Collusion fiasco including information about a email server. He specifically mentioned Mueller's investigation. So there is nothing in that response about Biden or his son.

By the way Trump was asking that Ukraine assist the Attorney General in that investigation. One that you said Barr was doing.

JonFBarr is conducting an "investigation" of the origins of the Russia investigation

So yes there was an investigation ongoing prior too and during the phone call.

Now to the Burisma Holding's investigation.

quote:
"There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky," Kasko said in an interview last week. "It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015"
https://www.bloomberg.com/...doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

Shokin became chief prosecutor in February 2015 and remained until March29 2016 when he was fired. According to the Bloomberg story the investigation had started again at the end of 2015 or they would have included 2016. So apparently Shokin had reopened the investigation and was making too many waves and had to be removed. After his firing a temporary was appointed and finally Yuri Lutsenko settled the cases for a few million dollars in Jan 2017 only 10 months after Shokin was fired.

Just smell's kind of like raw sewage to me.

The Investigation into Burisma Holdings was re-opened in January 2019.

JonF writes:

If there was no quid pro quo Trump would have talked about weapons.

Why would Trump mention weapons? Zelenskyy was not ready to purchase the Javelins at the time of the phone call but rather in the future. I am sure if he had been ready to deal Trump would have made a deal, or at least discussed it.

JonF writes:

There was and is no ongoing investigation in either Ukraine or the US.

But there are. If you will get your head out of the sand you might see them but I doubt it.

JonF writes:

A candidate was mentioned.


A person bragging about getting a prosecutor fired who happened to be a candidate was mentioned.

quote:
Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

I have seen his speech on TV where he makes that brag so that is a non debatable fact, unless Biden was lying and I can not see for the life of me why he would lie about such an event.

He made the threat and received the firing of the prosecutor. Ukraine received the billion+ dollars. Now to me that sounds like a quid pro quo. Or extortion if you prefer.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3505 by JonF, posted 10-16-2019 2:12 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3519 by DrJones*, posted 10-19-2019 9:13 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1984
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 3519 of 3596 (864999)
10-19-2019 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3518 by ICANT
10-19-2019 8:58 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
He made the threat and received the firing of the prosecutor.

do you believe that Biden was acting on his own? are you that stupid? The removal of the prosecutor had bipartisan support.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix quote box.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3518 by ICANT, posted 10-19-2019 8:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3520 by AZPaul3, posted 10-20-2019 4:18 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 3520 of 3596 (865022)
10-20-2019 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 3519 by DrJones*
10-19-2019 9:13 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
And international support.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3519 by DrJones*, posted 10-19-2019 9:13 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 3521 of 3596 (865040)
10-20-2019 1:32 PM


Secretary of State Mike Pompeo appeared on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos this morning, and here's my paraphrased recollection of one portion:

Stephanopoulos:Do you agree with Lisa Murkowski's characterization that holding back military aid on condition of providing domestic political assistance was inappropriate
Pompeo:I'm not going to comment on the hypotheticals posed by other people.
Stephanopoulos:It's not a hypothetical. Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said that the held back aid was conditioned on helping Trump politcally.
Pompeo:I'm not going to comment on a hypothetical.
Stephanopoulos:It's not a hypothetical. That's what Chief of Staff Mulvaney said.
Pompeo:That is insulting to the hard working people at the State Department.

Much of the interview was evasive like this. I don't know why Pompeo agreed to be on the show if he wasn't prepared to answer most questions.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3522 by Taq, posted 10-21-2019 6:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3522 of 3596 (865200)
10-21-2019 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3521 by Percy
10-20-2019 1:32 PM


Percy writes:

Much of the interview was evasive like this. I don't know why Pompeo agreed to be on the show if he wasn't prepared to answer most questions.

I wish George Orwell was still alive. That would have made for an interesting interview.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3521 by Percy, posted 10-20-2019 1:32 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3523 of 3596 (865469)
10-25-2019 2:58 PM


Trump makes Amerca Poorer Again.
Well, il Donald has yet another feather to put in his cap; he has kept his promise to lower our debt...NOT!

US deficit rises 26% to the highest level in 7 years.

Somebody remind me...who was the President seven years ago?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 3524 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-26-2019 5:02 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3524 of 3596 (865519)
10-26-2019 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3523 by jar
10-25-2019 2:58 PM


Re: Trump makes Amerca Poorer Again.
US deficit rises 26% to the highest level in 7 years.

The handwriting is on the wall. People will get the world they want, as you say...but they will try and get the world that they demand. Which will lead to wars and rumors of wars.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3523 by jar, posted 10-25-2019 2:58 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3525 by jar, posted 10-26-2019 5:30 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3525 of 3596 (865520)
10-26-2019 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3524 by Thugpreacha
10-26-2019 5:02 PM


Re: Trump makes Amerca Poorer Again.
Phat writes:

People will get the world they want, as you say...but they will try and get the world that they demand.

Wish in one hand, spit in the other. See which gets full first.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3524 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-26-2019 5:02 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3526 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-27-2019 1:14 PM jar has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019