Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8945 total)
22 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 21 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Upcoming Birthdays: ONESOlivia, perfect
Post Volume: Total: 865,370 Year: 20,406/19,786 Month: 803/2,023 Week: 311/392 Day: 1/41 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 3571 of 3596 (865945)
11-03-2019 7:14 AM


The Mueller Memos
Documents from the Mueller investigation were obtained by Buzzfeed under Freedom of Information requests.

Mueller Memos

Plenty of interest there - such as the fact that Manafort continued to advise the Trump campaign after he was fired.


  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 3572 of 3596 (866055)
11-04-2019 5:16 PM


The First Testimonies From Witnesses in Impeachment Inquiry Released
Yovanovitch and McKinley have the trascripts of their testimony released:

https://www.cbsnews.com/...anscripts-live-updates-2019-11-04

Time to throw the popcorn in the microwave.


  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1010
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 3573 of 3596 (866125)
11-06-2019 9:16 AM


This one has brought a little warm glow of satisfaction to my day:

Virginia elects woman who gave president the finger.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50315490


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3574 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 9:21 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 3574 of 3596 (866126)
11-06-2019 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 3573 by vimesey
11-06-2019 9:16 AM


Maybe the ultimate failure!
What's so funny is that our President is the guy who could not even make a success of casinos and beauty pageants.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3573 by vimesey, posted 11-06-2019 9:16 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 3575 of 3596 (866199)
11-07-2019 7:34 AM


Further Out of Hand
Trump is making war on our own intelligence community.

He and AG Barr are asking foreign governments to help them undermine the credibility of our own intelligence services. The goal is to show that Russia was not the culprit in manipulating the US election.

This is over to top, except it really isn't considering the BS these Putin sycophants have already pulled.

Dispatches Blog

quote:
And the information being requested has left allies astonished. One British official with knowledge of Barr’s wish list presented to London commented that “it is like nothing we have come across before, they are basically asking, in quite robust terms, for help in doing a hatchet job on their own intelligence services”.

We need to jail this son of a bitch.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3576 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2019 8:02 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2081
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 3576 of 3596 (866201)
11-07-2019 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3575 by AZPaul3
11-07-2019 7:34 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
I agree. We should.

Is it a crime under American law for a any AG to tell blatant lies to everyone in the world, in reports, on television, etc. in order to cover the crimes of a President? Telling lies just to keep on misleading the stupid people who just support him, come what may?

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3575 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 7:34 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3577 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 8:34 AM Pressie has not yet responded
 Message 3579 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 11:32 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 3577 of 3596 (866203)
11-07-2019 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 3576 by Pressie
11-07-2019 8:02 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
First Amendment allows all Americans to lie through our teeth. Only exceptions, seldomly enforced, are claims of drug, health, disease cures that may be harmful. Nothing political can be touched. Only recourse is to widely expose the lies and the liars to subject them to public shame. But this is Trump America. We The People just don't care.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3576 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2019 8:02 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3578 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 11:29 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3578 of 3596 (866216)
11-07-2019 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 3577 by AZPaul3
11-07-2019 8:34 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
AZPaul3 writes:

First Amendment allows all Americans to lie through our teeth.

There are also exceptions for libel and slander. Interestingly, there is a woman suing Trump for defamation because he accused her of lying when she said that Trump sexually assaulted her.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3577 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 8:34 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3581 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 11:58 AM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3579 of 3596 (866217)
11-07-2019 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 3576 by Pressie
11-07-2019 8:02 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
Pressie writes:

Is it a crime under American law for a any AG to tell blatant lies to everyone in the world, in reports, on television, etc. in order to cover the crimes of a President?

I think Barr could be accused of obstruction of justice if he carries out a misinformation campaign meant to hide hide crimes. He could also be impeached for lying to the public.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3576 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2019 8:02 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3580 by dwise1, posted 11-07-2019 11:48 AM Taq has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3839
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 3580 of 3596 (866219)
11-07-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3579 by Taq
11-07-2019 11:32 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
Yet interestingly, what I heard yesterday is that Trump ordered Barr to have a press conference to tell the public that Trump did not break any law with his Ukrainian phone call and Barr wouldn't do it. For that matter, Barr's reaction to Trump implicating Barr in that entire "drug deal" (Bolton's name for it) has been to distance himself from Trump and deny any knowledge or involvement with that particular shite-show.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3579 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 11:32 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3582 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 11:59 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 3581 of 3596 (866220)
11-07-2019 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3578 by Taq
11-07-2019 11:29 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
There are also exceptions for libel and slander.

Pressie's question was whether it was a crime. Libel and slander are tort claims not really crimes per se. I supposed they might be considered crimes against an individual's ego but I didn't consider them crimes against society in the way I took Pressie's question.

I may be wrong about the legality but I'll sue anyone who tries to tell me different. Except you have the right to call me wrong so I 'm wrong about sueing which might allow a tort claim on your part. I apologize profusely.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3578 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 11:29 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3583 by Coragyps, posted 11-07-2019 12:02 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded
 Message 3584 by Taq, posted 11-07-2019 12:05 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3582 of 3596 (866221)
11-07-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3580 by dwise1
11-07-2019 11:48 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
dwise1 writes:

Yet interestingly, what I heard yesterday is that Trump ordered Barr to have a press conference to tell the public that Trump did not break any law with his Ukrainian phone call and Barr wouldn't do it.

It would appear that Barr isn't willing to go down with the ship. Some are also wondering what he knows about the SDNY investigation into Guiliani, and if that is informing his decision to distance himself from the Trump administration. When the poop starts moving towards the fan it is best to leave the room.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3580 by dwise1, posted 11-07-2019 11:48 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3587 by RAZD, posted 11-11-2019 11:57 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5407
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3583 of 3596 (866222)
11-07-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3581 by AZPaul3
11-07-2019 11:58 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
“Those who love the law and sausages should never watch either being made” - Bismarck, I think......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3581 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 11:58 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3585 by Percy, posted 11-07-2019 12:36 PM Coragyps has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3584 of 3596 (866223)
11-07-2019 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3581 by AZPaul3
11-07-2019 11:58 AM


Re: Further Out of Hand
AZPaul3 writes:

Libel and slander are tort claims not really crimes per se. I supposed they might be considered crimes against an individual's ego but I didn't consider them crimes against society in the way I took Pressie's question.

There is no federal criminal defamation law, but some states do have criminal defamation laws. I guess we can both be right since there are states where there you won't face criminal charges for defamation.

quote:
Between 1992 and August 2004, 41 criminal defamation cases were brought to court in the United States, among which six defendants were convicted. From 1965 to 2004, 16 cases ended in final conviction, among which nine resulted in jail sentences (average sentence, 173 days).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3581 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2019 11:58 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 3585 of 3596 (866225)
11-07-2019 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3583 by Coragyps
11-07-2019 12:02 PM


Re: Further Out of Hand
Coragyps writes:

“Those who love the law and sausages should never watch either being made” - Bismarck, I think......

I'd never heard this quote before, and it didn't sound to me like something Bismarck would say. I suspected an unknown origin but tried to look it up. It's not in Bartlett's under Otto von Bismarck, and it isn't in the Bartlett's index, but I did find a webpage about it: Laws are Like Sausages. Better Not to See Them Being Made. Though the quote is widely attributed to Bismarck, it concludes John Godfrey Saxe as the more likely author.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3583 by Coragyps, posted 11-07-2019 12:02 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3586 by Coragyps, posted 11-07-2019 12:52 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019