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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Phat
Member
Posts: 13789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3691 of 3788 (868869)
12-19-2019 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 3690 by Percy
12-19-2019 10:34 AM


Re: Trump has been impeached.
Link?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3690 by Percy, posted 12-19-2019 10:34 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 3692 of 3788 (868918)
12-20-2019 8:06 AM


Trump Should Be Very Happy
At his rally Wednesday night while the House was preparing to vote on impeachment Trump held a campaign rally in Michigan where he said :

quote:
"This lawless, partisan impeachment is a political suicide march for the Democratic party – have you seen my polls in the last four weeks?"

Source: Trump reacts to his impeachment: 'It's a political suicide march for the Democratic party' – video

The president should be delighted at this turn of events where Democrats are taking the very actions that will cause the demise of their party.

Trump's words echo those of many Republicans who apparently believe the same thing, that Democrats are committing political suicide.

A Yahoo News/YouGov poll (In new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, most voters agree with Trump’s impeachment) says that 53% of registered votes believe Trump abused the powers of his office, and that 51% believe he obstructed Congress.

48% of Americans support removing Trump from office, compared to 40% who do not.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3694 by RAZD, posted 12-20-2019 12:52 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 3693 of 3788 (868919)
12-20-2019 9:18 AM


An Evangelical Voice Regains its Moral Sanity
Christianity Today, the evangelical magazine founded by the late Reverend Billy Graham, yesterday ran an editorial endorsing Trump's impeachment and removal: Trump Should Be Removed from Office. Significant excerpts:

quote:
Let’s grant this to the president: The Democrats have had it out for him from day one, and therefore nearly everything they do is under a cloud of partisan suspicion. This has led many to suspect not only motives but facts in these recent impeachment hearings. And, no, Mr. Trump did not have a serious opportunity to offer his side of the story in the House hearings on impeachment.

But the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.

His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.

We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see. This damages the institution of the presidency, damages the reputation of our country, and damages both the spirit and the future of our people. None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.

That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this:...Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come? Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?

To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.


Sorry for the long excerpt. I would have summarized in my own words, but they wouldn't have the same power and eloquence.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3695 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-20-2019 11:47 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3706 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 11:46 AM Percy has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20623
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3694 of 3788 (868934)
12-20-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3692 by Percy
12-20-2019 8:06 AM


Re: Trump Should Be Very Happy
A Yahoo News/YouGov poll (In new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, most voters agree with Trump’s impeachment) says that 53% of registered votes believe Trump abused the powers of his office, and that 51% believe he obstructed Congress.

48% of Americans support removing Trump from office, compared to 40% who do not.

And of those who disagree with the impeachment/removal process, many support him being voted out in the next election. Poll: 55 percent say they won't vote for Trump in 2020

When people see the circus in the Senate ...

And then there is the evangelical awakening ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3809
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


(1)
Message 3695 of 3788 (868982)
12-20-2019 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3693 by Percy
12-20-2019 9:18 AM


Re: An Evangelical Voice Regains its Moral Sanity
To quote "Lefty" from "Raging Pencils (Raging Pencils : 12-20-19 : Begone False Prophet : Progressive Cartoons Monday, Wednesday and Friday)

quote:
My question for Christianity Today magazine is "What took you people so goddamn long to figure out that Trump is an amoral con-man?

Sheesh!


Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3693 by Percy, posted 12-20-2019 9:18 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2904
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 3696 of 3788 (868984)
12-21-2019 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 3695 by Minnemooseus
12-20-2019 11:47 PM


Re: An Evangelical Voice Regains its Moral Sanity
Well if he is the Antichrist he must have used his demonic powers to blind them to the truth. if he is though there is only a few months left to his rule


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3695 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-20-2019 11:47 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 3697 of 3788 (868986)
12-21-2019 10:00 AM


Putin has Trump's Back
From Salon magazine: Vladimir Putin attacks Democrats for “made up” impeachment charges as he defends President Trump

How much evidence do Trump supporters need before they understand that there is an improper relationship between President Trump and Vladimir Putin. With Putin as with the Ukraine, Trump has enlisted foreign help for personal gain regarding his political standing and his chances in the 2020 election.

Trump supporters by and large, from rank and file supporters all the way up to members of Congress and of his administration, seem incapable of seeing the snake in the room. They're unable to look at this from the opposite perspective, to ask themselves, "If Putin defended Obama would we be okay with that? We wouldn't, of course. So why are we okay with Putin defending Trump?"

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3698 by jar, posted 12-21-2019 10:37 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2019 10:49 PM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32348
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(4)
Message 3698 of 3788 (868989)
12-21-2019 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3697 by Percy
12-21-2019 10:00 AM


Re: Putin has Trump's Back
Oh come on Percy. You're acting like Putin was KGB, not the head of a friendly nation.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3697 by Percy, posted 12-21-2019 10:00 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3699 by AZPaul3, posted 12-21-2019 1:19 PM jar has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4853
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 3699 of 3788 (869002)
12-21-2019 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3698 by jar
12-21-2019 10:37 AM


Re: Putin has Trump's Back
caugh! gasp! pant

You're supposed to warn us before you do something like that, jar!


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3700 of 3788 (869014)
12-21-2019 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3697 by Percy
12-21-2019 10:00 AM


Re: Putin has Trump's Back
I see this impeachment process as pretty much handing Trump another term on a silver platter. This impeachment will not amount to one damn thing that's useful. He's not going anywhere because its obvious at this point its based on a popularity contest and not actually identifiable impeachment charges. When he survives it, and he will just as Clinton did, he and his supporters will use it to their advantage.

Trump is a goddamn buffoon. Trump has no respect for the institution of the presidency. Trump is a myopic and self-aggrandized megalomaniac. And I have no doubt that there are numerous improprieties during his tenure as president. None of that is in dispute. But I really don't think they have anything on him that is going to rise to the level of ousting him and, worse still, that this will actually play into his hands. The Democrats couldn't have picked a worse time to do this either.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3697 by Percy, posted 12-21-2019 10:00 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3701 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-21-2019 11:58 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3809
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


(1)
Message 3701 of 3788 (869015)
12-21-2019 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2019 10:49 PM


Hyroglyphx thinks impeachment is a bad idea
The articles of impeachment have been passed in the House BUT is being held off from being passed on to the Senate.

I yield to my perceived faith in the wisdom of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Hold off on passing the impeachment to the Senate and let things stew, about how the Republicans of the Senate are going to handle the trial. Right now, the Republican image is that they are fully in defense of Trump and willing to whitewash anything and everything Trump does. Let that image stew, and see what happens.

The other option: Let it look like the Democrats are unwilling to challenge Trumps misdeeds - Not at all good for the Democrats image.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2019 10:49 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3702 of 3788 (869016)
12-22-2019 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3701 by Minnemooseus
12-21-2019 11:58 PM


Re: Hyroglyphx thinks impeachment is a bad idea
Its not that I think impeachment is a bad idea, its that I don't think its going to yield the desired results.

I yield to my perceived faith in the wisdom of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Hold off on passing the impeachment to the Senate and let things stew, about how the Republicans of the Senate are going to handle the trial. Right now, the Republican image is that they are fully in defense of Trump and willing to whitewash anything and everything Trump does. Let that image stew, and see what happens.

I also think this tactic of, "Lets wait and see" is a poor game plan. The half-assed approach is giving the Trumpians time to establish a counter. Hit them hard, hit them fast with solid evidence. Sitting around and waiting is giving credibility, whether real or imagined, to the notion that its a bluff and they really don't have anything substantial on him.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20623
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 3703 of 3788 (869062)
12-22-2019 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3701 by Minnemooseus
12-21-2019 11:58 PM


public opinion
... Right now, the Republican image is that they are fully in defense of Trump and willing to whitewash anything and everything Trump does. Let that image stew, and see what happens.

It's going to hinge on public opinion.

There are a couple of things that are up in the air (subpoenas, Rudy's "report etc), Christmas & New Year's holidaze, etc.

Then there will be the Senate Circus, where the republicans will say anything except admit to the evidence.

January should allow time for people to actually start thinking if they want the next president to

  1. use foreign help for elections, and
  2. ignore all subpoenas for all administration people, and
  3. ignore the constitution

Because acquitting him will give the future president/s that license.

Which of course, should be part of campaigning against any republicans that vote to acquit.

Right now the polls are split on impeach/remove (basically 49% to 48%).

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3701 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-21-2019 11:58 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 3704 of 3788 (869112)
12-23-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2019 10:49 PM


Re: Putin has Trump's Back
Hyroglyphx writes:

This impeachment will not amount to one damn thing that's useful.


I heard one commentator say that the impeachment is necessary to show the rest of the world that the US still respects the rule of law.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2019 10:49 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 3705 of 3788 (869128)
12-23-2019 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2019 10:49 PM


Re: Putin has Trump's Back
Interesting avatar.

Hyroglyphx writes:

I see this impeachment process as pretty much handing Trump another term on a silver platter.

What choice did the House have? No one thinks it a serious lack when the police don't give out jaywalking tickets or when they let most rolling through stop signs go and most rolling right-turn-on-reds go, but people would probably take a pretty dim view of the police letting a bank robbery go.

This impeachment will not amount to one damn thing that's useful.

But, continuing the analogy, if the police set a precedent by letting one bank robbery go, don't they have to let all future bank robberies go?

He's not going anywhere because its obvious at this point its based on a popularity contest and not actually identifiable impeachment charges.

Even this is absolutely true, what choice did the House have?

When he survives it, and he will just as Clinton did, he and his supporters will use it to their advantage.

Trump uses every crime he commits to his advantage. He accuses those who catch him with committing the same crime he committed. He's been trying to blame the 2016 election interference on the Ukraine and the Democrats for the past three years. Rudy Giuliani's Ukraine shenanigans were an attempt to nail this down by getting rid of Yovanovich so that the way was clear to coercing the Ukraine into announcing investigations into the DNC server and the Bidens. Rudy's just returned from another visit to the Ukraine where he supposedly gathered more "evidence" of Ukrainian interference and DNC collusion. It is no coincidence that these are the very crimes Trump is accused of. This is what he does.

So it doesn't matter that Trump's mendacity, his domination of the party of no conscience, integrity or backbone, and the gullibility of his supporters will allow him to turn this to his advantage. No matter what he's criticized for in the run-up to the 2020 election, he will turn it to his advantage. Assuming that stooping to his level is not an option the Trump opposition would ever consider, the only option is to keep reporting the facts and telling the truth.

But I really don't think they have anything on him that is going to rise to the level of ousting him...

If this isn't impeachable then nothing is.

The Democrats couldn't have picked a worse time to do this either.

Again, what choice did they have?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3700 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2019 10:49 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
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