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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
RAZD
Member (Idle past 30 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3721 of 4315 (869673)
01-03-2020 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3720 by jar
01-03-2020 11:00 AM


Re: Iran
Starting a major war worked well for Lyndon Johnson.

And Schrubbia (we're still there), but not so much for elder bush.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
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to share.


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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 3722 of 4315 (869674)
01-03-2020 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3719 by JonF
01-03-2020 10:34 AM


Re: Iran
Today I kept remembering an SNL skit based on the "carolers at the door" scene in "Love Actually", only it's Hillary pleading via placards to an elector that she vote [u]literally[/u] for anyone else: like John Casich, Tom Hanks, Zendaya, The Rock, a rock.

The punchline starting at 2:35 is: "If Donald Trump becomes President, he will kill us all."

And here we are now.


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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 3723 of 4315 (869698)
01-04-2020 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 3719 by JonF
01-03-2020 10:34 AM


Re: Iran
Well, Trump did run on a campaign to stop the endless wars in the Middle East. I guess if Iraq votes to force US troops to leave their country, that would be one more step in fullfilling one campaign promise.

For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 30 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3724 of 4315 (869700)
01-04-2020 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3723 by Chiroptera
01-04-2020 9:14 AM


Re: Iran
He also said 6 or 7 times that Obama would invade Iran to get re-elected.

So he has another chance to outdo Obama ...

Enjoy?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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Percy
Member
Posts: 19855
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 3725 of 4315 (869796)
01-05-2020 4:32 PM


The Assassination of Soleimani: Why Now?
Why did Trump order the assassination of Soleimani now? Just watch today's Sunday political programs (Meet the Press, Face the Nation, etc.) and the answer is obvious. Instead of talking about impeachment they're talking about Iran. Trump did what he always does when his misdeeds draw too much attention: he causes a distraction to benefit himself and hang the consequences that the country and world must suffer.

The US and the world are not a safer place after Soleimani's assassination. Americans are being warned to leave Iraq and the surrounding region. More troops are being sent to the Middle East. Homeland Security has been placed on higher alert. Our cyber targets are being warned to expect increased attacks. Security is being stepped up at our embassies around the world, as well as for our senior military officials. Our navy is stepping up its alertness in the Persian Gulf. Great Britain has just dispatched two destroyers to the region to protect British shipping.

Soleimani was responsible for many deaths, including Americans. He required our careful and continuous attention. But Trump's assassination of Soleimani will cause a greater number of American deaths and place an increased number of American lives at risk.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3831
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 3726 of 4315 (869818)
01-05-2020 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3725 by Percy
01-05-2020 4:32 PM


Re: The Assassination of Soleimani: Why Now?
This is what triggered me to start the "Pence would be a worse President than Trump???" topic (which I haven't yet looked at today).

Pence may be a theocrat, but would he trigger such a stupid action? I doubt it, but I may be wrong. This may be better discussed at the above linked.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 19855
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 3727 of 4315 (869829)
01-06-2020 7:34 AM


Homeland Security Ramping Up Security Measures
An indication that Homeland Security is ramping up their security apparatus was revealed yesterday as scores of Iranian-American citizens returning from trips to Canada for additional scrutiny about their political views and allegiances. Some were denied entry.

Source: U.S. Stops Dozens of Iranian-Americans Returning From Canada

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Improve wording.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19855
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 3728 of 4315 (869831)
01-06-2020 8:12 AM


Iraq May Ask US Troops to Leave
This is a very, very short article, merely a note really, but the Iraqi Parliament has voted to expel American troops from Iraq: Iraqi Parliament calls for expulsion of U.S. troops from the country.. This doesn't take effect immediately. Under Iraqi law it begins the process of implementation .

Iraq would apparently rather face the simultaneous threats of Iran and a potential resurgence of Isis than the presence of an unpredictable and impulsive US military. One possibility is that Iraq might become an Iranian proxy state.

As they are lied to by the bellicose Trump administration the American people should look at a map. Iran is huge. It has enormous resources. This is why they are able to so easily project their power at various pressure points around the Middle East. It will worsen now as Iran's resolve against the US strengthens. Where a few days ago there was a politically divided and factionalized Iran, the US now faces a politically united Iran with a clear and common enemy, and with the possibility that it may unite with Iraq. Both are predominantly Shiite.

According to List of countries by Fragile States Index - Wikipedia, Iraq is the 11th most unstable country in the world. The US has caused a great deal of harm to Iraq in our 16 years there. Iraq and the entire region were arguably better off under Saddam Hussein.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Correct where I mistakenly referred to Iraq when I meant Iran, and vice versa.


Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3831
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 3729 of 4315 (869860)
01-06-2020 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3728 by Percy
01-06-2020 8:12 AM


Re: Iraq May Ask US Troops to Leave - Forum historic side note?
Iraq and the entire region were arguably better off under Saddam Hussein.

Of forum historic interest? -

Almost 13 years ago (24-Feb-2007) I created the topic "Iraq needed Saddam?"

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Forgot to put Percy quote in.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(3)
Message 3730 of 4315 (869910)
01-08-2020 4:19 AM


Pot Meet Kettle

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19855
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 3731 of 4315 (869911)
01-08-2020 10:46 AM


The Impeachment Rules of the Senate
On Monday Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) introduced a resolution to dismiss the articles of impeachment (Hawley rallies GOP colleagues to move to dismiss articles of impeachment). Here are a few of his words on Hannity's Fox program (there are many more in the article).

quote:
The Senate has a set of 26 rules that govern all impeachment proceedings, which presume a “prompt delivery of the articles of impeachment to the Senate following their adoption by the House.”

I looked up this claim that the Senate rules presume a "prompt delivery of the articles of impeachment to the Senate following their adoption by the House." It's not true. The Senate rules are at RULES OF PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE IN THE SENATE WHEN SITTING ON IMPEACHMENT TRIALS. Here's the first article:

quote:
I. Whensoever the Senate shall receive notice from the House of Representatives that managers are appointed on their part to conduct an impeachment against any person and are directed to carry articles of impeachment to the Senate, the Secretary of the Senate shall immediately inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is ready to receive the managers for the purpose of exhibiting such articles of impeachment, agreeably to such notice.

This article speaks of managers appointed by the House carrying the articles of impeachment to the Senate so that they may be presented. If Hawley's resolution passes it will violate Senate rules. They need to first amend the Senate rules for impeachment trials so the first article reads like this:

quote:
I. Whensoever the House passes articles of impeachment, the Senate shall inform the House of Representative that the Senate will begin the trial at a time of it's choosing irregardless of the appointment of managers by the House of Representatives or the delivery and exhibition of the articles of impeachment to the Senate.

The second article is problematic for Mitch McConnell's expressed desire to either dismiss the articles or run a trial with no witnesses or documents, i.e., no evidence, because this article requires the House managers to be introduced, after which they will present the articles. This isn't possible until House managers have been appointed, which I presume Pelosi will not do until such time is she is satisfied the Senate will carry out a trial that history will judge as legitimate and genuine.

quote:
II. When the managers of an impeachment shall be introduced at the bar of the Senate and shall signify that they are ready to exhibit articles of impeachment against any person, the Presiding Officer of the Senate shall direct the Sergeant at Arms to make proclamation, who shall, after making proclamation, repeat the following words, viz: ‘‘All persons are commanded to keep silence, on pain of imprisonment, while the House of Representatives is exhibiting to the Senate of the United States articles of impeachment against ——— ———’’; after which the articles shall be exhibited, and then the Presiding Officer of the Senate shall inform the managers that the Senate will take proper order on the subject of the impeachment, of which due notice shall be given to the House of Representatives.

I think the third article is the one Hawley must be thinking of, and he has interpreted it incorrectly. It refers to the Senate considering the articles promptly, not to the House delivering them promptly:

quote:
III. Upon such articles being presented to the Senate, the Senate shall, at 1 o’clock afternoon of the day (Sunday excepted) following such presentation, or sooner if ordered by the Senate, proceed to the consideration of such articles and shall continue in session from day to day (Sundays excepted) after the trial shall commence (unless otherwise ordered by the Senate) until final judgment shall be rendered, and so much longer as may, in its judgment, be needful. Before proceeding to the consideration of the articles of impeachment, the Presiding Officer shall administer the oath hereinafter provided to the members of the Senate then present and to the other members of the Senate as they shall appear, whose duty it shall be to take the same.

I think Hawley and the rest of the Senate should accept the rules for what they say, not for what he wishes they said. If they would like to amend the rules that is within their prerogative, but if it results in a sham trial then history is unlikely to judge them kindly.

--Percy


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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1171
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3732 of 4315 (869912)
01-08-2020 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3731 by Percy
01-08-2020 10:46 AM


Re: The Impeachment Rules of the Senate
I would have thought it better to let them run rough shod over this, and have what will be seen more clearly as a sham.

Trump won't be found to be in breach of his duties by the GOP in any event - better to have clear evidence of childish and un-dignified collusion by the GOP, for the Democrats to deal with in a grown up and dignified manner, thereby hopefully attracting the small group of uncomfortable Republican voters in the coming election.

I think the best hope is that the GOP becomes so brazen and over-confident, that some conservatives think "whoah, hold on a minute."


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(2)
Message 3733 of 4315 (869918)
01-08-2020 1:25 PM


Trump and the destruction of the evangelicals.
Asyou all know I am not a Christian, I am not a believer, so some may find it kind of rich that I am quoting a preacher. Reverend Barber speaks with a moral voice and manifests what my understanding is that Christians say they stand for.
quote:
This misuse of religion is, sadly, an American tradition. Colonists who cheated Native Americans out of land and forced enslaved Africans to build a new nation worshiped a God whose demand for justice troubled their conscience. “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just,” Thomas Jefferson wrote, acknowledging the basic moral contradiction between the principle of liberty he had appealed to in the Declaration of Independence and the practice of bondage that his plantation and the economy surrounding it depended upon. This conflict did not only exist within Jefferson’s soul. It divided every major denomination of the American church in the 19th century.
When abolitionists insisted on pointing out the immorality of human bondage, plantation owners responded by paying preachers and theologians to write justifications of race-based chattel slavery. They imagined a world in which the bodies and souls of black Africans were dependent on the paternalistic supervision of white civilization. Slavery was not simply a justifiable evil. It was, according to America’s slaveholder religion, a positive good. Just as they would argue in the 20th century that segregation was best for black and white people, evangelicals for Jefferson Davis contended that slavery was as good for the souls of black Africans as it was for the pocketbook of the plantation owner.
No one who has read American history can be surprised by the hypocrisy of Evangelicals for Trump. But we can learn from the history how their undoing will inevitably come from their public arrogance. While Davis and Wallace had power, they did not have to listen to the cries of those who suffered from the injustice they used the Bible to justify. They found religious leaders who were willing to tell them lies in order to have access to their power. But the ignorance they intentionally cultivated led them to misjudge the political realities of their day. The Confederate States of America could not last. Wallace’s 1968 run for president revealed the limits of his political imagination.

Evangelicals using religion for political gain is nothing new. It is a US tradition | Reverend William Barber


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(3)
Message 3734 of 4315 (869920)
01-08-2020 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3733 by Theodoric
01-08-2020 1:25 PM


Re: Trump and the destruction of the evangelicals.
I never liked Christian nationalism, but if I honestly examine my own values and what I think being a Christian means, I begin to realize that Jesus never cared much for prosperity. He seemed to care more for helping the least of these (people throughout the world) and it seems as if this whole farce with the Evangelicals and Trump has a lot more to do with pushing material prosperity rather than honor and justice (and charity).

I can see why ringo challenges my conscience so often. Perhaps I would be better off being honest and realizing that I embraced Christianity due to the benefits it could have offered me rather than the responsibility I would be charged to provide for others.

All I know is that I am at odds with most of my "Christian" friends and associates. I agree with this article that you posted, and it is a timely and ongoing issue.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3733 by Theodoric, posted 01-08-2020 1:25 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 3735 of 4315 (869921)
01-08-2020 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3732 by vimesey
01-08-2020 11:11 AM


Re: The Impeachment Rules of the Senate
I think the best hope is that the GOP becomes so brazen and over-confident, that some conservatives think "whoah, hold on a minute."
All I can think of is that quote:
Proverbs 16:18.

quote:
This expression comes from The Book of Proverbs in the Bible. ... The original quote from the King James Bible is Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Some theologians interpret this to mean that a proud person will be condemned to hell.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3732 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2020 11:11 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
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