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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
dwise1
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Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 3886 of 3962 (875904)
05-09-2020 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3885 by jar
05-09-2020 8:10 AM


Re: President Pelosi
You are supporting that quote I offered in Message 490:
quote:
To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. “Can I interest you in the chicken?” she asks. “Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?”

To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.

I mean, really, what’s to be confused about?


After Trump and Pence are taken out of action by their own stupidity, what a President Pelosi would offer us would be someone who is not willing to kill far more of us in order to profiteer even more from this crisis. Someone who will at the very least try to address and solve the problems we're faced with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3885 by jar, posted 05-09-2020 8:10 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3887 by jar, posted 05-09-2020 1:34 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 3887 of 3962 (875907)
05-09-2020 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3886 by dwise1
05-09-2020 12:06 PM


Re: President Pelosi
But please point to any indication that I claim to be undecided?

There is a difference between being honest and trying to choose the lesser evil.

Pelosi is owned by the same oligarchs as Trump or Pence or Biden. The stewardess really asked which shit with glass entree will you have. There is no chicken choice today.

It's time to pretty much screw the Presidency and concentrate on capturing the Senate. I doubt that even that would be sufficient to save the US but winning the Presidency is not just irrelevant, without the Senate it might even hasten the total collapse.

Trump as President with a Democratic Congress may at least provide four years of continuation of some possibility of avoiding devolution.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3886 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2020 12:06 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3888 of 3962 (875950)
05-10-2020 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3883 by Percy
05-08-2020 5:13 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Planning, strategizing and organizing while changing course as circumstances require is what competent management would do. It is not what Trump is doing. He can't do course corrections because he has no set course to begin with.

There have been many diseases to unexpectedly hit the U.S. since it's founding. A quick comparison of what Trump has / is doing to what 3 (4?) past presidents have done indicates that his course is much better set and established than past presidents in past cases. The three that would probably be the most comparable would be the 1918 pandemic (Wilson), the 1968/69 pandemic of Johnson / Nixon, and the 2009 swine flu (Obama). Here's a good link that refers to the 68?69 one;

Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic

This is fairly brief and a good read, I won't c/p it all. But this is the main point;

quote:
The only actions governments took was to collect data, watch and wait, encourage testing and vaccines, and so on. The medical community took the primary responsibility for disease mitigation, as one might expect. It was widely assumed that diseases require medical not political responses.

and;

quote:
Which raises the question: why was this different? We will be trying to figure this one out for decades.
Was the difference that we have mass media invading our lives with endless notifications blowing up in our pockets? Was there some change in philosophy such that we now think politics is responsible for all existing aspects of life? Was there a political element here in that the media blew this wildly out of proportion as revenge against Trump and his deplorables? Or did our excessive adoration of predictive modelling get out of control to the point that we let a physicist with ridiculous models frighten the world’s governments into violating the human rights of billions of people?

OF COURSE everyone knows the 2020 one is blown out of proportion as revenge against Trump. OF COURSE Trump has done far more, invested more time, involved more people than did Wilson, Johnson, Nixon, or Obama. They were under no pressure to do anything. It would have been laughable for Wilson, Johnson, or Nixon to do anymore than they did, because the public actually knew then much better than they know now, that there's no Constitutional authority for a president to meddle in medical issues.

I disagree with Trump that spending a few more trillion of our grandchildren and great grandchildren's money so today's generation can continue to enjoy it's air conditioning and new car lifestyle without interruption in the face of a problem no different than over a dozen past problems is the right thing to do, the "general welfare" clause not withstanding. I can't believe that only one congressman raised some reservations about that. Thomas Massie represents my district. (Yes, I'm proud) He'll be easily re-elected too.

If Trump was competent and effective and doing what was good for the country then we'd have effective medical supply, testing and contact tracing strategies, but we don't.

It's not the presidents job to take over private sectors of the economy.

Trump has resolutely refused to follow the advice of medical experts in these areas.

The high profile medical people that are involved in this are not politicians, and I believe them when they say that they have no political motivations. But they are grilled by Democrats and the news media to a much more intense extent than the medial experts in 1918, 1969, and 2009. Of course they have to answer loaded questions honestly, "will wearing masks, shutting down businesses, social distancing, keep at least some germs from spreading?" Their answers are then pounced on by the news media, and Trump is further hammered on.

marc9000 writes:

Several times, including just recently, ABC"s David Muir proclaimed that "PRESIDENT TRUMP REVERSES COURSE". Just like your USA Today headline uses the term "reversal" - it's an egregious lie. All he did was delay an action until a later date based on new information.

Reverses course on what in particular? Only if you describe what you're talking about can it be discussed.

I'm talking about what your link referenced, Trump's decision to delay the winding down of the Corona Virus Task Force, based on input from his credentialed advisors.

You mean like this Trump same-day 180:

That's not a 180, not a reversal. To continue on indefinitely doesn't mean it will go on forever. It just means it will wind down at a later date. The term "reversal" means to change to an OPPOSITE direction, condition, or position. To abandon one direction and all things associated with that direction. There's nothing opposite in delaying the same decision until a later date. The term "reversal" used this way is fake news. During all the confusion of the Obama administration's reaction to the swine flu, Obama promised 100 million doses of a vaccine by a certain date, yet after plenty of supply problems and unforeseen circumstances he pared that down to 40 million. Did the news media describe that as a "reversal"? You know the answer.

And Trump's reason for the switch? Because the task force is popular. Not because this effort chaired by Mike Pence is doing essential work leading and coordinating the virus response effort (or would if Trump would let them) but that it's popular. Everyone else thinks the task force should continue in operation because of the important work it is doing.

Can you prove that or is it just a left wing talking point? Could it be that his advisors told him its work is not yet complete, and he agreed with them that it's important?

Trump only liked the task force as long as it provided him daily TV opportunities to spread propaganda, lies and misinformation. The embarrassments he created for himself grew more and more severe, finally culminating in his bleach/disinfectant/light comments that forced him to cease the daily circus, the circus being Trump, not the other people who spoke. Once the task force ceased providing him a daily propaganda opportunity, he lost interest. Of course he wanted to cancel it, because he doesn't care about the country, only what gets him before the cameras.

A U.S. president, especially Trump, doesn't need to create special opportunities to get before cameras, he can get in front of them anytime he wants. The purpose of those press briefings, (if the news media would actually do its job) is to provide the public with information about what's actually going on. It never has been before 2016, and is not supposed to be, an attack fest by the news media. That's the reason he discontinued it, but he put up with it for awhile, he enjoyed it - he's quick witted and he's good at it. But it became nothing more than violent squabbling similar to what sometimes goes on in 3rd world countries, not the example that the U.S. should set to any foreigner that might be watching in this age of communications. In normal circumstances, a question like (paraphrasing); "Since more people have died from this disease than died during the Vietnam war, do you think you deserve to be re-elected?" would have been an embarrassment to the person who asked it, it wouldn't have made the person an instant hero to millions of others whose hatred of Trump consumes any logical thinking they might be capable of. Her heroism only lasted about a half minute. Trump showed no discomfort at all, he just went over some of the things he's done in response the problem.

Trump is an "ideas man", that's what successful businessmen are. He was looking at, talking to a medical person when he was tossing out ideas concerning bleach / disinfectant / light. He was in no way implying that people should make new medial decisions on their own. That so many of his haters twisted that to mean that people should inject themselves with anything, showed him that he STILL can underestimate the stupidity of some of the people he's dealing with. Again, if it were only one, or a small group of people who would recognize their own embarrassment and learn from it, the briefings could continue, but when the entire Democrat party jumps on board the stupid bandwagon, inspired by only one person, it seems to shield that person from embarrassment. Trump can see that continuing those briefings serves to do little more than embarrass the entire U.S. liberal faction in front of any foreign entities that might be watching.

marc9000 writes:

As long as the swing voters aren't paying much attention, it works for them. But when those who ARE paying attention take note of this and point it out to others, then it tends to cancel out any gains the crooked news media made.

It isn't clear what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the fake news improper use of the term "reversal".

marc9000 writes:

Polls taken of news media approval tend to bear this out. It's like when Trump stopped travel from China back in January, and was immediately called a xenophobe, racist, bigot, etc. by many Democrats and their puppets in the news media.

You're repeating a false complaint manufactured by Trump and being a willing dupe in the bargain. If you really think this true then try to track down news articles from right after Trump's January 31 announcement of the China travel restrictions that report what you're claiming. You'll have a hard time doing it because they don't exist.

quote:
“This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia — and fearmongering,” said Biden the day after the travel restrictions were imposed.

CNN ran a story warning that “the US coronavirus travel ban could backfire” and have the effect of “stigmatizing countries and ethnicities.”

The Chinese Communist Party’s official mouthpiece, the People’s Daily, called the ban “racist.”

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warned it would increase “fear and stigma, with little public health benefit.”


Criticisms of Trump’s coronavirus response are sickening: Devine

This is another false Trump manufactured complaint.

No, it's something I noticed all by myself. Do you now need links showing how Pelosi and others have claimed that Trump didn't act soon enough?

Is there anything he says that you won't buy?

You and I both have sources we "buy". Yours is the Washington Post's and the NY Times. Trump is in his 70's, is a billionaire, and donates his salary. I really do believe he's concerned about the country. Your sources are not billionaires, they're after money, ratings, and sensationalism gets it for them. And to satisfy their satanic hatred of one man, a hatred that most Christians like myself can't fully understand.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3883 by Percy, posted 05-08-2020 5:13 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3889 by Percy, posted 05-11-2020 5:43 PM marc9000 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 3889 of 3962 (876023)
05-11-2020 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3888 by marc9000
05-10-2020 12:57 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Wow, Marc, you've outdone yourself. I'm not going to waste time on most of the nonsense and paranoia, just touch on the few least irrational points.

marc9000 writes:

OF COURSE everyone knows the 2020 one is blown out of proportion as revenge against Trump.

Given that over 80,000 have already died in a few short months, that the pandemic will likely continue at least another year, that unemployment is rising toward 20%, and that the deficit will likely exceed $4 trillion this year, in what way is the pandemic blown out of proportion?

If Trump was competent and effective and doing what was good for the country then we'd have effective medical supply, testing and contact tracing strategies, but we don't.

It's not the presidents job to take over private sectors of the economy.

Public health is a private sector responsibility now?

You mean like this Trump same-day 180:

That's not a 180, not a reversal.

Deciding to close down the task force in the morning and then deciding to keep it open later in the day is a reversal.

Trump is an "ideas man",...

This is another false Trump manufactured complaint.

No, it's something I noticed all by myself. Do you now need links showing how Pelosi and others have claimed that Trump didn't act soon enough?

What's manufactured is Trump's complaint that Democrats reversed course concerning whether the Trump administration acted early enough.

Is there anything he says that you won't buy?

You and I both have sources we "buy".

I think this is true for you, but what you need is information you accept because of the evidence behind it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3888 by marc9000, posted 05-10-2020 12:57 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3896 by marc9000, posted 05-13-2020 8:43 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3890 of 3962 (876026)
05-11-2020 6:03 PM


Trumpian Double Standard Glaringly Obvious
Trump has declared that Americans should be warriors willing to risk death to return to work without the testing and contact tracing that would greatly increase their safety while insisting upon intensive testing and contact tracing for himself and the people in his administration. Apparently it's essential for his workplace but not for anyone else's.

Here's a Post editorial that makes the point better than me: Trump’s latest effort to gaslight America is falling apart

--Percy


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 3891 of 3962 (876039)
05-12-2020 7:14 AM


Donald Trump Has Found His Roy Cohn
"Where's my Roy Cohn?" Trump frequently lamented. Well, now he's got him, in spirit if not in the flesh.

The avuncular William Barr is amiable and grandfatherly on the outside, but on the inside he's Roy Cohn to the core. He's got the president's back like no other Attorney General before, going out of his way to destroy the independence of independent counsel Robert Mueller by mischaracterizing his report's content and conclusions and interfering with his investigations and convictions to protect the president's friends. He has tasked U.S. Attorney John Durham to begin a non-independent investigation of the origins of the Russia investigation by the Obama administration. All this is glaringly political.

The other day Barr was asked how history would remember the Bill Barr Department of Justice, and Barr replied that history is written by the winners, being both cynical and out of context at the same time. The quote is about wars, not election outcomes in democratic nations. Republicans and Democrats will continue to win and lose elections, and it will have no impact on the perspectives developed by future historians. Grant won the presidency, Tammany Hall won many elections, but history had no problem looking back and seeing their corruption. It will be the same for Barr. He will go down in history as the most corrupt Attorney General in US history, and of course his boss as the most corrupt president. Whoever comes in second, it won't even be close.

Republicans from this period won't fare much better. Giving the cold shoulder to Republican principles under Trump reveals them as seekers of power, not principle. The cherished Republican principles are now exposed as disposable, a mere means to power. Trump provided an easier way, so they threw the principles aside.

--Percy


  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3892 of 3962 (876125)
05-12-2020 8:54 PM


Postponed until... Never?
Kushner says as of now postponing the Presidential election is the plan.

https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1260356910617890816


  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3893 of 3962 (876170)
05-13-2020 3:43 PM


Business as usual
Watchdog demands probe after Energy Secretary Dan Brouillette admits WH pressed Fed to give oil companies access to COVID-19 funds

quote:
“We now know that Trump administration officials ‘worked very closely with the Federal Reserve’ to make these changes so taxpayer-backed loans would be available to oil and gas firms,” tweeted Bharat Ramamurti, a member of the Congressional Oversight Commission. “How do we know? The Energy Secretary went on TV and said so.”[...]

The energy secretary went on to say that President Donald Trump personally directed him and Mnuchin “to evaluate the programs that were passed by the Congress and ensure that there is access for these energy industries to those programs.”

“And that’s what we’ve done,” said Brouillette.

Following Brouilette’s remarks, Ramamurti said the Congressional Oversight Commission “should investigate these changes carefully.”

“These Fed facilities are not supposed to direct aid specifically to certain companies or industries—particularly not ones that were in dire financial shape even before the coronavirus crisis began,” said Ramamurti.



{emphasis added}

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3894 of 3962 (876174)
05-13-2020 7:50 PM


Not out of the woods

Replies to this message:
 Message 3895 by jar, posted 05-13-2020 8:42 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3895 of 3962 (876178)
05-13-2020 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3894 by JonF
05-13-2020 7:50 PM


Re: Not out of the woods
so that tweet showed up. I've made no changes. Interesting.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3894 by JonF, posted 05-13-2020 7:50 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3896 of 3962 (876179)
05-13-2020 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3889 by Percy
05-11-2020 5:43 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Wow, Marc, you've outdone yourself. I'm not going to waste time on most of the nonsense and paranoia, just touch on the few least irrational points.

I had a glimmer of hope that you just might acknowledge your carelessness, but I knew there wasn't much chance. Safe to say that you'll be more careful in the future when you tell someone they won't find links / proof for something just because you don't know about it, or choose to ignore it.

Given that over 80,000 have already died in a few short months, that the pandemic will likely continue at least another year, that unemployment is rising toward 20%, and that the deficit will likely exceed $4 trillion this year, in what way is the pandemic blown out of proportion?

A lot of corruption is involved in death counts, most of the deaths are the result of old age. We're not told, (it's probably not possible to distinguish between) the deaths that happen due to natural causes with only the covid19 virus present versus the deaths that are actually caused by the virus. And hospitals get more money for covid19 deaths - lot of money flying around. The other things you mention, unemployment, deficit, they've been caused by the panic, not the disease.

marc9000 writes:

It's not the presidents job to take over private sectors of the economy.

Public health is a private sector responsibility now?

Now?? Yes, just like it was in 1918, 1968, and 2009.

Deciding to close down the task force in the morning and then deciding to keep it open later in the day is a reversal.

It's a reversal in one minor decision, not a "course reversal". That decision was about 1% of the entire "course".

Accusations of all politicians, especially presidents, lying is about as old as the U.S. itself. "Bush lied, people died", Bill Clinton was "an unusually good liar", Richard Nixon, Andrew Johnson, it's always been there. But prominent news anchors lying is a pretty new thing. And I'm not the only one who thinks it's a SERIOUS problem.

Something's going to have to be done about it. Now that "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" (that's in the First Amendment) has crashed, we'll see how long "or of the press" manages to stay alive. Maybe it's time for a Fake News Task Force. As there are more and more news channels and opinion shows, it's getting harder and harder to distinguish between who is a journalist versus who is an opinionated commentator. This News Task Force (a committee) could consist equally of Democrats and Republicans, and could clearly designate who is who, and hold the news anchors accountable. Muir would have to sit out a few weeks, maybe also pay a heavy fine, for his Lie about Trump's "course".

What's manufactured is Trump's complaint that Democrats reversed course concerning whether the Trump administration acted early enough.

And here's the evidence, combined with my earlier link, that shows it's not manufactured.

Dems are Saying Trump Didn't Act On the Virus Soon Enough, So Here's a Supercut of How Serious They Were Taking It Themselves


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3889 by Percy, posted 05-11-2020 5:43 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3897 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 8:38 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 3899 by NosyNed, posted 05-14-2020 9:29 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 3901 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 11:23 AM marc9000 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3897 of 3962 (876193)
05-14-2020 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 3896 by marc9000
05-13-2020 8:43 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
marc9000 writes:

Wow, Marc, you've outdone yourself. I'm not going to waste time on most of the nonsense and paranoia, just touch on the few least irrational points.

I had a glimmer of hope that you just might acknowledge your carelessness, but I knew there wasn't much chance. Safe to say that you'll be more careful in the future when you tell someone they won't find links / proof for something just because you don't know about it, or choose to ignore it.

You are living in your own dreamworld. I think you still lack a way to reliably identify what is actually true about the real world.

Given that over 80,000 have already died in a few short months, that the pandemic will likely continue at least another year, that unemployment is rising toward 20%, and that the deficit will likely exceed $4 trillion this year, in what way is the pandemic blown out of proportion?

A lot of corruption is involved in death counts, most of the deaths are the result of old age. We're not told, (it's probably not possible to distinguish between) the deaths that happen due to natural causes with only the covid19 virus present versus the deaths that are actually caused by the virus. And hospitals get more money for covid19 deaths - lot of money flying around. The other things you mention, unemployment, deficit, they've been caused by the panic, not the disease.

These are bald assertions unsupported by any evidence. You're blindly following Trump's lead in setting the stage for denying the virus is causing many deaths in order to justify reopening the economy not because deaths are overstated but because he believes that provides the best path to reelection.

You don't really seem to care about people taking ill and dying, only about making up a set of "facts" that leads to Trump's reelection.

marc9000 writes:

It's not the presidents job to take over private sectors of the economy.

Public health is a private sector responsibility now?

Now?? Yes, just like it was in 1918, 1968, and 2009.

Why are you wallowing in error like this? Public health is a public responsibility. It's in the name.

Deciding to close down the task force in the morning and then deciding to keep it open later in the day is a reversal.

It's a reversal in one minor decision, not a "course reversal". That decision was about 1% of the entire "course".

You're straw manning now. No one said the entire course was reversed. It was only said that Trump reversed course on keeping the task force open. When the day started the task force was open. Later that morning Trump said he was shutting it down, a move that surprised no one since after his string of blunders it was broadly apparent that it no longer served his political ends. Late in the afternoon the political fallout of dismissing a pandemic task force while the pandemic still raged became apparent, so he reversed course and said he wasn't closing it down.

But this was just one example of Trump's schizophrenic approach to governing. Sometimes he acts on what was last said to him, other times he acts on impulse, other times out of anger. It's "China's doing a great job" one day and "China's responsible for the pandemic" the next. It's "we have to shelter in place" in the morning and "Free Michigan" in the afternoon. This contradictory ping-ponging between positions stems from the lack of any centralizing plan or philosophy. The "plan" is whatever Trump feels is politically expedient at the time. It works very well for him politically, but for the country not so well.

Accusations of all politicians, especially presidents, lying is about as old as the U.S. itself. "Bush lied, people died", Bill Clinton was "an unusually good liar", Richard Nixon, Andrew Johnson, it's always been there. But prominent news anchors lying is a pretty new thing. And I'm not the only one who thinks it's a SERIOUS problem.

Mainstream news anchors haven't changed. What's changed is the growth of a right-wing echo chamber that denies facts.

As I've posted to many people many times, I'm not going to watch a video without a strong reason. Video's are an extremely slow way to communicate information unless they're very visual. I can read far faster than a video, so please summarize the information from the video you think important and provide the video as a reference, just as the Forum Guidelines say you're supposed to do. If it's just a short segment of video then you could preposition it at the right place. From the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Something's going to have to be done about it. Now that "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" (that's in the First Amendment) has crashed, we'll see how long "or of the press" manages to stay alive. Maybe it's time for a Fake News Task Force. As there are more and more news channels and opinion shows, it's getting harder and harder to distinguish between who is a journalist versus who is an opinionated commentator. This News Task Force (a committee) could consist equally of Democrats and Republicans, and could clearly designate who is who, and hold the news anchors accountable. Muir would have to sit out a few weeks, maybe also pay a heavy fine, for his Lie about Trump's "course".

You're proposing the destruction of an independent news media where truth is whatever the controlling party says it is. Your proposal will be agreeable to you only for as long as the party you prefer is in control, then you'll start blaming your News Task Force for fake news.

What's manufactured is Trump's complaint that Democrats reversed course concerning whether the Trump administration acted early enough.

And here's the evidence, combined with my earlier link, that shows it's not manufactured.

Dems are Saying Trump Didn't Act On the Virus Soon Enough, So Here's a Supercut of How Serious They Were Taking It Themselves

This is just a bare link. See the aforementioned Forum Guidelines. RedState is a conservative political blog, not a news outlet. Bring any accurate information it provides into this thread and provide the link as a reference.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3896 by marc9000, posted 05-13-2020 8:43 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3908 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2020 9:41 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3898 of 3962 (876194)
05-14-2020 8:55 AM


The Republican War On Science Continues
Trump publicly criticized Dr. Anthony Fauci's testimony during a Senate hearing. Trump said he was surprised that Dr. Fauci testified that reopening schools and businesses prematurely would lead to unnecessary suffering and death.

Dr. Fauci also said that the number of deaths is being undercounted.

Trump deemed Fauci's comments unacceptable, which means Trump sees them as hindering his political goals. For Trump science, and the country, must be sacrificed in the service of his reelection efforts.

Source (among many, it's all over today's news): Trump's rebuke of Fauci encapsulates rejection of science in virus fight

--Percy


  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 3899 of 3962 (876196)
05-14-2020 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 3896 by marc9000
05-13-2020 8:43 PM


Death Counts
A lot of corruption is involved in death counts, most of the deaths are the result of old age. We're not told, (it's probably not possible to distinguish between) the deaths that happen due to natural causes with only the covid19 virus present versus the deaths that are actually caused by the virus. And hospitals get more money for covid19 deaths - lot of money flying around. The other things you mention, unemployment, deficit, they've been caused by the panic, not the disease.

You are correct in your suggestion that the death counts are flawed.

With the thoroughly inadequate testing (in spite of Trump's continued claims otherwise) many may die of covid but not be allocated to it's death count.

In addition, there may be in the old age group, as you say, deaths that seem to be covid but aren't. Again there is inadequate testing. (though the allocation of cause of death is not the very most important reason for needing more tests).

So how would one determine the correct covid death count? Since you seem to think you are smarter than others maybe you know a way?

I know one.

Edited by NosyNed, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3896 by marc9000, posted 05-13-2020 8:43 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3900 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 9:50 AM NosyNed has not yet responded
 Message 3910 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2020 10:16 PM NosyNed has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3900 of 3962 (876197)
05-14-2020 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3899 by NosyNed
05-14-2020 9:29 AM


Re: Death Counts
NosyNed writes:

A lot of corruption is involved in death counts, most of the deaths are the result of old age. We're not told, (it's probably not possible to distinguish between) the deaths that happen due to natural causes with only the covid19 virus present versus the deaths that are actually caused by the virus. And hospitals get more money for covid19 deaths - lot of money flying around. The other things you mention, unemployment, deficit, they've been caused by the panic, not the disease.

You are correct in your suggestion that the death counts are flawed.

I know you said "flawed" and not "corrupt," but still, commenting "you are correct" to a paragraph that begins "A lot of corruption is involved in death counts" might lend the impression that you agree there's corruption. In Marc's world a corrupt medical establishment is working to make the pandemic seem far worse than it actually is in order to hurt Trump's reelection chances. Trump has already begun laying the groundwork for this argument.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3899 by NosyNed, posted 05-14-2020 9:29 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
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