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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3901 of 3962 (876202)
05-14-2020 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 3896 by marc9000
05-13-2020 8:43 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Opinion | America’s True Covid Toll Already Exceeds 100,000 is a New York Times opinion piece that explains how the current 83,000 dead is an undercount. Its count derives from comparisons with deaths over the same period in prior years, i.e., excess deaths. The data and results are preliminary.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3896 by marc9000, posted 05-13-2020 8:43 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3909 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2020 10:02 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3902 of 3962 (876212)
05-14-2020 12:41 PM


Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
Anyone know what's Obama's terrible crimes were? Trump evidently doesn't. Watch him attempt to answer:

Got that? The crimes were terrible and everyone knows what they were, but Trump was obviously floundering for an answer. Judging from the tweet, Trump is accusing Obama of "targeting incoming officials" and "sabotaging the new administration." Anyone want to guess what Trump will eventually accuse Obama of doing that are actually crimes?

Is the Trump pattern of accuse and complain without evidence obvious to everyone?

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3903 by Coragyps, posted 05-14-2020 2:57 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3905 by nwr, posted 05-15-2020 12:39 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5495
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 3903 of 3962 (876213)
05-14-2020 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3902 by Percy
05-14-2020 12:41 PM


Re: Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
Pretty damn obvious!!
I wish I were a White House reporter that didn’t need the job.....

Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3902 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 12:41 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3904 by dwise1, posted 05-14-2020 4:15 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3904 of 3962 (876217)
05-14-2020 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3903 by Coragyps
05-14-2020 2:57 PM


Re: Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
What we need is for the reporters to react honestly to Trump when he says what he inevitably says.

Like laughing out loud while pointing at the moron who just said the stupidest thing possible.

Or other honest reactions, like Dr. Fauci's (portrayed on SNL by Brad Pitt) starting at the 2:00 mark:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3903 by Coragyps, posted 05-14-2020 2:57 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5607
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


(3)
Message 3905 of 3962 (876231)
05-15-2020 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 3902 by Percy
05-14-2020 12:41 PM


Re: Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
Anyone know what's Obama's terrible crimes were?

I'm assuming it is that he conspired to be born black.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3902 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 12:41 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3906 by jar, posted 05-15-2020 7:36 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 3906 of 3962 (876240)
05-15-2020 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 3905 by nwr
05-15-2020 12:39 AM


Re: Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
And smart and articulate and educated and compassionate and ...

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3905 by nwr, posted 05-15-2020 12:39 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3907 by dwise1, posted 05-15-2020 7:54 AM jar has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3907 of 3962 (876241)
05-15-2020 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3906 by jar
05-15-2020 7:36 AM


Re: Trump's Obama Accusation Filled With Blanks
And smart and articulate and educated and compassionate and ...

... and human.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3906 by jar, posted 05-15-2020 7:36 AM jar has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3908 of 3962 (876261)
05-15-2020 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3897 by Percy
05-14-2020 8:38 AM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
You are living in your own dreamworld. I think you still lack a way to reliably identify what is actually true about the real world.

I think I do better on a liberal forum, outnumbered by about 30 to 1, than you would on a conservative forum outnumbered in about the same way. If it was anywhere near 50/50 here, you'd have taken a pretty good beating for denying something you clearly did only a few messages ago.

These are bald assertions unsupported by any evidence. You're blindly following Trump's lead in setting the stage for denying the virus is causing many deaths in order to justify reopening the economy not because deaths are overstated but because he believes that provides the best path to reelection.

Reopening the economy isn't only good for his reelection, the country's survival depends on it. I know the left wants it closed as long as possible, the House wants three more trillion to try to keep as many people idle as possible until November. Sink the ship to drown the captain. Some, but not all of them, realize they're on the same ship. Their plan? - swim over to the nearby communist ship, get yanked on board by the arrogant, armed agents, and collect their little tidbits of free stuff. Won't take them long to wish they were back on the Trump ship.

You don't really seem to care about people taking ill and dying, only about making up a set of "facts" that leads to Trump's reelection.

As you don't seem to care about children of the unemployed going hungry, about families going bankrupt, about small business owners losing everything, about people losing their life savings. With each day that goes by during this shutdown, more business owners reach the point of no return, that if everything opened back up tomorrow, their former lifestyle is completely through. Do you have no understanding at all for the enthusiasm some people, restaurant owners as one example, have for their chosen lifestyles?

marc9000 writes:

Percy writes:

Public health is a private sector responsibility now?

marc9000 writes:

Now?? Yes, just like it was in 1918, 1968, and 2009.

Percy writes:

Why are you wallowing in error like this? Public health is a public responsibility. It's in the name.

But the name isn't anywhere in the Constitution. It was nowhere to be found in 1918, 1968, or 2009 in any talking points. It's a brand new talking point invented by today's Democrat party, almost exclusively used as a weapon against Trump. Businesses weren't closed by the Obama administration in 2009.

You're straw manning now. No one said the entire course was reversed.

Muir said Trump "reversed course". He didn't specify that he reversed only part of the entire course. It's naturally taken by Muir's viewers, especially his targets, the ones who are only casually interested in politics, that he reversed the entire course of all he was doing concerning the virus outbreak.

So you're saying he didn't reverse one decision, he reversed on course. That must mean he has many courses. Did he reverse the stimulus course? Nope, no reversal there. Did he reverse his course to find out what China knew, and the time he spends deciding on what action to take against China? Did he reverse working with governors and the task force to help determine when is the best time and the best step by step procedure to open up their economies and get people back to work? It's beginning to appear that he has many more courses than Obama did back in 2009.

But this was just one example of Trump's schizophrenic approach to governing. Sometimes he acts on what was last said to him, other times he acts on impulse, other times out of anger. It's "China's doing a great job" one day and "China's responsible for the pandemic" the next. It's "we have to shelter in place" in the morning and "Free Michigan" in the afternoon. This contradictory ping-ponging between positions stems from the lack of any centralizing plan or philosophy. The "plan" is whatever Trump feels is politically expedient at the time. It works very well for him politically, but for the country not so well.

Most of the reason for his "ping ponging", is the constant changing going on with others who make decisions, he isn't a dictator, the political process involving lots of others make a lot of the decisions. As one example, the Michigan governor recently ruled that the state must remain locked down, but that states supreme court overruled her.

Mainstream news anchors haven't changed.

It's been a gradual change. But from the 60's to today, it's very stark. The difference between those like Chet Huntley and David Brinkley versus Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper is night and day.

As I've posted to many people many times, I'm not going to watch a video without a strong reason. Video's are an extremely slow way to communicate information unless they're very visual. I can read far faster than a video, so please summarize the information from the video you think important and provide the video as a reference, just as the Forum Guidelines say you're supposed to do.

That's exactly what I did. I led into the video with;

quote:
But prominent news anchors lying is a pretty new thing. And I'm not the only one who thinks it's a SERIOUS problem.

Then the vids clear description was;

quote:
Why No One Trusts the Mainstream Media

Then I followed that headline with this remark, complete with a follow up on how it could be done.

quote:
Something's going to have to be done about it.

It wasn't as picture perfect a way to follow that one forum guideline as can be done, but you have to admit, it's a much better job than you did with Message 3901. (well I take that back, you probably won't admit it) That video is only 5:20 long, it had a lot of information. And it was quite visual, Sharyl is pretty hott.

Here's some reading on her, if you insist;

Ex-CBS reporter: Government agency bugged my computer

and;

quote:
In nearly 20 years at CBS News, she has done many stories attacking Republicans and corporate America, and she points out that TV news, being reluctant to offend its advertisers, has become more and more skittish about, for instance, stories questioning pharmaceutical companies or car manufacturers.

Working on a piece that raised questions about the American Red Cross disaster response, she says a boss told her, “We must do nothing to upset our corporate partners . . . until the stock splits.” (Parent company Viacom and CBS split in 2006).


Ex-CBS reporter’s book reveals how liberal media protects Obama

I remember her well as a news anchor decades ago, she's older than she looks. She's one of the very few over the years who bucks the dishonest trend in one-sided news reporting.

You're proposing the destruction of an independent news media where truth is whatever the controlling party says it is. Your proposal will be agreeable to you only for as long as the party you prefer is in control, then you'll start blaming your News Task Force for fake news.

No, as I said, it would consist equally of Republicans and Democrats. There would never be a controlling party concerning what the committee would do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3897 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 8:38 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3921 by Percy, posted 05-16-2020 2:27 PM marc9000 has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3909 of 3962 (876262)
05-15-2020 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3901 by Percy
05-14-2020 11:23 AM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
...is a New York Times opinion piece that explains how the current 83,000 dead is an undercount. Its count derives from comparisons with deaths over the same period in prior years, i.e., excess deaths. The data and results are preliminary.

RedState is a conservative political blog, not a news outlet.

And you believe a NY Times opinion piece is less biased than is RedState? Let's look at some comparison deaths that happen yearly in the U.S. - should be a nice little supplement to your opinion piece;

35,000 deaths from antibiotic resistant bacteria

35,000 alcohol induced deaths

36,000 deaths from falls

41,000 deaths from blood poisoning resulting from bacteria

47,000 deaths from suicide

56,000 from flu and pneumonia

65,000 from accidental poisoning

83,000 from diabetes

121,000 from alzheimers

160,000 from chronic lower respiratory disease

170,000 all accidental deaths

250,000 deaths from medical errors

599,000 from cancer

647,000 from heart disease

It's a fact that everybody dies. No matter what happens with coronavirus, its death count will get nowhere near the commonly accepted deaths that happen every year in the U.S. 99% of coronavirus victims recover from the disease. There was nothing wrong with curtailing many business for a week or two until a basic handle could be gotten on what this virus consisted of. We're far beyond that now. Now it's a dangerous political game - the fault of one political party with TDR.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3901 by Percy, posted 05-14-2020 11:23 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3911 by kjsimons, posted 05-15-2020 10:21 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 3924 by Percy, posted 05-17-2020 10:10 AM marc9000 has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3910 of 3962 (876263)
05-15-2020 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3899 by NosyNed
05-14-2020 9:29 AM


Re: Death Counts
With the thoroughly inadequate testing (in spite of Trump's continued claims otherwise) many may die of covid but not be allocated to it's death count.

Not everyone agrees that today's testing is inadequate. It seems to be better than whatever testing was going on in 1918 or 1969. Probably 2009 too - didn't seem to be much frantic reporting on the 2009 tests. Businesses weren't shut down then. But I think the best way to test is for each person to determine on their own how they feel. If they feel fine that's great, they should go out and live their lives / achieve something. If they feel sick, they should get medical attention. That's the way it's always been done in the U.S., even before it was trillions of dollars in debt, when it could more likely afford the time and money for tests. What good is it to get a test, have the results come back negative, then come down with the virus 5 hours, or 5 minutes later? Some people have the virus, some have the flu. Some of them feel fine even though they have either/both of those things. Or some are very ill with neither of those things. The symptoms and remedies are confusing. Those on the left always say "follow the science", but so far science is a long way from having much in the way of answers.

So how would one determine the correct covid death count? Since you seem to think you are smarter than others maybe you know a way?

Not smarter, just more passionate for the truth. I don't think the death count is important, but the best way to do it is the way it was done in 1918, 1969, or 2009. Let the hospitals compile it, and don't give them any incentives to fake anything.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3899 by NosyNed, posted 05-14-2020 9:29 AM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3912 by NosyNed, posted 05-16-2020 12:52 AM marc9000 has responded

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 684
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 3911 of 3962 (876264)
05-15-2020 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3909 by marc9000
05-15-2020 10:02 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Well we are currently at almost 90000 deaths from Covid-19 in about 4 months that won't have occurred at this point without the virus. Yes everyone dies eventually but this is accelerating deaths.

Edited by kjsimons, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3909 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2020 10:02 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3926 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2020 3:22 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 3912 of 3962 (876267)
05-16-2020 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3910 by marc9000
05-15-2020 10:16 PM


Correct actions
If they feel fine that's great, they should go out and live their lives / achieve something. If they feel sick, they should get medical attention. That's the way it's always been done in the U.S.,...

You seem to be making the mistake of treating each of the different epidemic and pandemic diseases the same. At least that's one mistake.

We know that a person who has no symptoms can infect others who may then die of covid. This is one of the things that makes this a bigger problem than other diseases. You may feel that endangering others lives if fine. Many, in fact I'll bet the overwhelming majority, do not feel the same way. Since you are so irresponsible you can't be trusted to make your own decisions so your freedom to do so will have to be taken away.

What incentives does anyone have for faking the death count? And you'd not get away with it for long if you tried on any large scale so it would be stupid to try.

All the available evidence from around the world supports the death counts taken everywhere.

The US's is high because of mistakes made that other countries didn't make. Countries who were as careless as the US experienced similar numbers.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3910 by marc9000, posted 05-15-2020 10:16 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3913 by JonF, posted 05-16-2020 9:02 AM NosyNed has responded
 Message 3928 by marc9000, posted 05-17-2020 3:50 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 3913 of 3962 (876269)
05-16-2020 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3912 by NosyNed
05-16-2020 12:52 AM


Re: Correct actions
Trump has a big reason for faking the death count.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3912 by NosyNed, posted 05-16-2020 12:52 AM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3915 by NosyNed, posted 05-16-2020 10:13 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19788
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 3914 of 3962 (876270)
05-16-2020 10:09 AM


Trump Promotes Misinformation on Early Vaccine Availability
President Trump yesterday promised hundreds of millions of doses of coronavirus vaccines by January (Scientists say Trump’s timeline on wide vaccine availability is unrealistic). Americans should view this announcement askance. Trump is promoting a false narrative where the cure is right around the corner, shortly after the election. As November approaches Trump will be telling his rallies that the vaccine is almost ready and that it was the efforts of his administration making this possible. Meanwhile scientists will be cautioning that a vaccine is still many months in the future. Trump is saying what he is saying not because it has any factual basis but because he needs to convince voters that everything's fine and he's handled things well.

Developing a vaccine from scratch in 12-18 months is sort of like baking a cake in five minutes, and the coronavirus is tricky vaccine-wise. Americans would do best to listen to the experts and keep their expectations reasonable. We are trying to fast track vaccine development and manufacture by building manufacturing lines for promising strains before development and testing is complete. Manufacturing lines for strains that don't pan out will be discarded at the expense of the federal government. It is not impossible that we could have a vaccine in full production by January, but it is not very likely.

Our best hope is for a suite of treatments that dramatically reduce the death and disability rate. If the virus becomes treatable then we can fully reopen the country without a vaccine.

In related news, it has been requested that the drug Trump promoted, hydroxychloroquine, be removed from the FDA's list of drugs approved for emergency use because it is causing so many deaths. "What the hell do you have to lose?" Trump asked at a coronavirus press briefing, and the answer is, "Your life."

This shouldn't have to be said, and sorry to shout, but DO NOT LISTEN TO TRUMP ABOUT ANYTHING TECHNICAL, ESPECIALLY MEDICAL. He will say whatever he thinks will dominate the next 24-hour news cycle or help him get elected without regard to truth or accuracy (see President Trump made 18,000 false or misleading claims in 1,170 days). Trump is the proverbial snake oil salesman extraordinaire.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 3916 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2020 10:33 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 3915 of 3962 (876271)
05-16-2020 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 3913 by JonF
05-16-2020 9:02 AM


Stupid to try
Trump has a big reason for faking the death count.

So he will be stupid enough to try.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3913 by JonF, posted 05-16-2020 9:02 AM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3919 by Percy, posted 05-16-2020 11:40 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
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