Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 71 (9015 total)
42 online now:
(42 visitors)
Newest Member: Ashles
Post Volume: Total: 882,115 Year: 13,863/23,288 Month: 55/326 Week: 75/92 Day: 1/24 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
JonF
Member
Posts: 6171
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3946 of 4426 (876484)
05-20-2020 8:48 PM


Flynn’s head hasn't unrolled yet
Mike Flynn’s name was never ‘masked’ in FBI document — which eliminates Trump’s claim of an ‘illegal leak’

quote:
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) announced that he wants to subpoena witnesses over the unmasking of Flynn. He sent a letter demanding Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell ask why a declassified list of Obama officials made the requests “that revealed Flynn’s name in intelligence documents ‘did not contain a record showing who unmasked’ Flynn’s identity in relation to “his phone call with” the Russian diplomat, Sergey Kislyak,” said the Post. [...]

“When the FBI circulated [the report], they included Flynn’s name from the beginning,” saying that it was essential to understanding its significance, a former senior U.S. official told the Post. “There were, therefore, no requests for the unmasking of that information.”



  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6171
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3947 of 4426 (876539)
05-21-2020 7:26 PM


Bait and switch
:Trump administration paying huge premium for mask-cleaning machines. Which don't do the job.

quote:
It sounded like a great deal: The White House coronavirus task force would buy a defense company’s new cleaning machines to allow critical protective masks to be reused up to 20 times. And at $60 million for 60 machines on April 3, the price was right.

But over just a few days, the potential cost to taxpayers exploded to $413 million, according to notes of a coronavirus task force meeting obtained by NBC News. By May 1, the Pentagon pegged the ceiling at $600 million in a justification for awarding the deal without an open bidding process or an actual contract. Even worse, scientists and nurses say the recycled masks treated by these machines begin to degrade after two or three treatments, not 20, and the company says its own recent field testing has only confirmed the integrity of the masks for four cycles of use and decontamination.

Nurses in several places across the country now say they are afraid of being at greater risk of acquiring COVID-19 while using N95 masks, which they say often don’t fit correctly after just a few spins through a cleaning system that uses vapor phase hydrogen peroxide to disinfect them



But you can be sure that they are taking care of what's really important: sucking as much taxpayer money as they can into rich people's pockets.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3948 by vimesey, posted 05-22-2020 2:45 AM JonF has not yet responded
 Message 3952 by Percy, posted 05-23-2020 12:52 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1190
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 3948 of 4426 (876546)
05-22-2020 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 3947 by JonF
05-21-2020 7:26 PM


Re: Bait and switch
I suppose they could sue the supplier for breach of contract ?

Oh wait - silly me - that would involve taking money from rich people wouldn't it ? And we can't be having that now, can we ?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3947 by JonF, posted 05-21-2020 7:26 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(3)
Message 3949 of 4426 (876581)
05-23-2020 11:03 AM


As a Canadian I should probably keep my mouth shut but I just saw this on the news. Vote for me or you ain't black - Biden
It is hard to fathom that a choice between Trump and Biden is the best that the US can come up with.

Mind you, I am far from sold on our PM either.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


Replies to this message:
 Message 3950 by vimesey, posted 05-23-2020 11:56 AM GDR has responded
 Message 3977 by ramoss, posted 06-02-2020 10:09 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1190
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 3950 of 4426 (876585)
05-23-2020 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 3949 by GDR
05-23-2020 11:03 AM


I know what you mean - our last choice was between Boris and Corbyn :-/

I wonder if New Zealand would be willing to hire out Jacinda Ardern ?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3949 by GDR, posted 05-23-2020 11:03 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3951 by GDR, posted 05-23-2020 12:16 PM vimesey has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


(1)
Message 3951 of 4426 (876587)
05-23-2020 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3950 by vimesey
05-23-2020 11:56 AM


Frankly, our democratic system is failing us. It has become a sport, looking for gotcha moments, debating points, showmanship, how much money you can raise etc. The character of our politicians seems to be well down on the scale of what's important. It isn't about providing a good government whose goal is to actually serve the country and hopefully make the world a better place.

It just seems to me that the people who run are running out of the desire for power and influence, and then when they get elected it is about maintaining power and influence with little thought given to doing something positive with it. Thankfully there are exceptions but I haven't seen many examples of it lately.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3950 by vimesey, posted 05-23-2020 11:56 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19881
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 3952 of 4426 (876589)
05-23-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3947 by JonF
05-21-2020 7:26 PM


Re: Bait and switch
JonF writes:

Trump administration paying huge premium for mask-cleaning machines. Which don't do the job.

This is surprising. I read an article way well over a month ago about three approaches to cleaning masks, including the vapor phase hydrogen peroxide approach, and all methods had the problem that the masks could only endure a few cleaning cycles at most. I remember the article having actual pictures of the masks after three or four cycles. One approach left the masks a sodden mess. I figured, "That's the end of that, too bad."

And they all had the problem of greatly reducing the electrostatic properties of N95 masks, which is how they're able to trap tiny particles.

But no, the federal government funneled money to one of these businesses, and I think it would surprise no one if one or more of the business's owners has friends in the Trump administration.

Here at home we have a few N95 masks that we cycle through. We use one, then let it sit a few days to let possible live virus die before using it again. We don't go out a lot so our masks see little use, but it adds up and after a couple months our masks are still in great shape. My retired doctor friend who volunteered and has been resourced to the testing effort also uses this approach in his personal life. For testing he says they're always given new stuff (masks, booties, gloves) and freshly washed stuff (scrubs, face shield).

My wife got yelled at for not wearing a mask by someone while walking on a hiking trail yesterday. There seem to be varying opinions about whether vigorous walking is exercise or not. Most of the hiking trails around here are still closed, but not all of them. Hiking trails average maybe 6-8 feet wide? And they often narrow to just a few feet. Seems like maintaining a safe distance would often not be possible and that masks should be worn. But if you're the vigorous type of walker then a mask would be a breathing hinderance, so maybe they should close the rest of the trails. The streets around here are plenty wide for walking without a mask.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : face mask => face shield


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3947 by JonF, posted 05-21-2020 7:26 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3953 of 4426 (876647)
05-24-2020 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3939 by Phat
05-18-2020 10:20 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Really? I too am an essential worker.

The reason I throw that out there sometimes is because, in about 10 years of on and off posting here, it seems pretty clear to me (immediate replies, posting times at any time all day by many) that more than half of the regular posters here don't seem to have jobs. That's not a put-down, some might work at night, some might work part time, some might be retired, some disabled. But being busy with other things can be perceived as weakness, and it seems to me that a person who is heavily involved in working and paying taxes and not drawing any kind of assistance would have a perspective of how the world works that would be noted by those who are more idle for whatever reason.

I have a question for you, marc. I see you arguing with Percy and enjoy reading the exchange.

Thanks for reading.

As a conservative, what would be your basic definitions for what is a liberal and what is a conservative?

My conservative views are very mainstream, from James 'I-cannot-undertake-to-lay-my-finger' Madison, to John 'Ask-not-what-your-country-can-do-for-you' Kennedy, all the way to Ronald Reagan and countless congressmen, senators, and opinion commentators of today - the belief of the benefits of the text of the constitution and the intent of the framers, with the traditional U.S. blend of Judeo-Christian values and morals. What makes posting here interesting is the way most liberals here act like they've never heard my views before. They're either dishonest, or live in a tiny liberal bubble.

Liberalism? Grow the government. Re-distribute earnings, "get even" with successful people. Jealousy, and that's an important term. So much compassion for the lower middle class in the U.S. today, but it's seldom mentioned that practically all U.S. citizens live like kings today compared to average people of 100 years ago. Those people didn't have jealousy problems, because the lifestyles of others weren't thrown in their faces like it is in today's technological age.

The reason Trump, (and to a lesser extent, Reagan) are hated so much today is because they've proven that limiting government unleashes prosperity for most citizens, whether they're well off or not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3939 by Phat, posted 05-18-2020 10:20 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3958 by Percy, posted 05-25-2020 12:24 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 3960 by 14174dm, posted 05-25-2020 12:41 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3954 of 4426 (876648)
05-24-2020 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 3933 by Percy
05-17-2020 9:04 PM


Re: Correct actions
Cloth masks? No, there's no evidence of adverse health effects using cloth masks. N95 respirator masks shouldn't be worn by people with health issues, but otherwise they're fine, with only possible minor effects after wearing for a long time. But how many people are wearing N95 masks? They're still not available at the retail level, though Defense Procurement Act administrator Peter Navarro was on the Sunday morning programs today touting the Trump administration's great success with PPE.

Your information is incorrect. Hospital charges to Medicare for a coronavirus stay can vary widely depending upon length of stay and services provided. A 20% surcharge was passed by Congress and signed by Trump because of the extra costs of dealing with the extreme contagiousness of the virus, such as the constant sanitizing, the complete change of PPE required when moving from a coronavirus area to a non-coronavirus area, and so forth.

So you're saying that had Trump not been distracted by the impeachment that he would have begun addressing the pandemic back in January when he should have? How many times did Trump tweet in January? He sent 125 tweets on January 22 alone.

So by sending out hundreds of tweets in January, many in response to the impeachment circus, that means he wasn't distracted at all? Not very good logic.

Congratulations on making it through another post without saying anything true or correct.

Well, you have to give me credit for providing two links to back up my claims without making bare assertions, like the forum rule states. Whereas, you made bare assertions contradicting them with no supporting evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3933 by Percy, posted 05-17-2020 9:04 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3957 by DrJones*, posted 05-24-2020 11:15 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 3959 by Percy, posted 05-25-2020 12:36 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3955 of 4426 (876649)
05-24-2020 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3936 by Percy
05-18-2020 4:48 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
You're making things up again. I'm sure everyone with a sense of humanity wants the country reopened as safely and as quickly as possible.

But those with a sense of Democrat loyalty, mostly atheists, mostly Trump haters, know that keeping the country as restricted as possible keeps churches closed, and many churches are on thin financial ground. These restrictions also keep Trump from holding his (very successful) political rallies. This pandemic has been politicized much more by Democrats than Republicans.

It's a point of view the right wants their constituents to accept because it will increase division and hatred between the two sides and make mutual understanding unlikely. It's harder to hate the other side when you only believe true things about them.

So you're accusing Republicans of "increasing division and hatred" more than Democrats? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, but that has never worked for me before. "NO, I"M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG", is what I always get from those on the left.

What you call attacks are just the news media reporting on what Trump was doing right out in the open.

It's well documented that a huge percentage of mainstream journalists are very liberal, and vote for very liberal candidates. Here's a link from your beloved Washington Post;

Just 7 percent of journalists are Republicans. That’s far fewer than even a decade ago.

The actual reaction of most people on the left to Trump's many shenanigans was a feeling of disbelief. The specifics of that feeling varied according to what Trump did. Sometimes it would be, "I can't believe he said something so racist," other times, "I can't believe he said something so ignorant," other times, "I can't believe he said something so misogynistic," other times, "I can't believe he said something so xenophobic," other times, "I can't believe he did something so impeachable," and so forth.

Meanwhile, the economy is (was) good, and that's what people who work and pay taxes care most about. Putting so much emphasis on Trump's words and personality is a clear sign that there is little knowledge or appreciation for the effort required to sustain the current U.S. society. Those on the left just seem to think the U.S. economy just coasts along, with no real effort involved. Though I've seen little indication of it, I hope those on the left learned at least a little something recently - that it doesn't take much of a glitch, a little hoarding and panic buying, to leave some of the aisles in food stores bare of things like bath tissue for weeks on end, until suppliers can get a handle on it. The things so many take for granted don't happen automatically.

Are you saying Trump was wrong to shut down the country?

As it worked out, yes. Trump, like most people, had no idea that the left would use it as a political attack. That they would make every effort to keep it closed as long as possible to get the country to 1930's levels of depression or worse, to help achieve their political goals. Many liberals are passionate about keeping the economy closed as long as possible.

COVID-related arson believed cause of church fire in Mississippi

quote:
Bet you stay at home now you hypokrits.

That's what a sign left at the scene of the fire. Not a representative of all liberals of course, but it is an indicator of strong feelings from the left concerning the re-opening of the economy, and churches.

Concerning made up stuff, the reason you end up introducing so much made up stuff is because you use an approach guaranteed to fixate on false information. You either get an idea or hear something from a right wing outlet, then you seek confirmation on the Internet where one can literally find anything being said, and when you find someone somewhere saying what you want to hear then that confirms it for you, regardless of source or factual support or consistency with other information or even whether it makes any sense.

All you need to do is replace "right wing outlet", with "left wing outlet", and you've described the left very well.

The big false belief of the right, which also makes no sense, is that liberals are evil purveyors of lies trying to fill the country with criminal illegal immigrants, put as many people on welfare as possible, hamstring the national defense, send jobs overseas, promote a false climate crisis, and stifle business, and that's not even a complete list. It would be nice if the politicians could have an honest debate, but any attempt quickly devolves into accusations.

That all makes perfect sense, because there is evidence for it. It goes along perfectly with growing the government at all costs.

marc9000 writes:

In March, it still wasn't clear if this was going to spiral into something as bad as what happened in 1918,...

This would be incorrect. By March it had already spiraled into a pandemic in China and was spinning out of control in Italy and Spain. On January 23 and 28 Trump was warned of the pandemic threat in intelligence briefings, and more frequently during February.

During February, exactly when De Blasio and many other Democrats were downplaying the threat, ready to pounce if Trump took any action on it?

De Blasio, NYC Officials Downplayed COVID-19 Threat After Trump Restricted Travel To China. Here Are 5 Examples

This is important for those in charge to discuss, as opposed to playing blame games like whether to call it the China Virus or making false declarations like that the virus will go away without a vaccine, and so forth.

Calling it the China Virus is important, since that's where it came from. It's a good basic truth to work with, in helping determine how to keep something like it from happening again. Also important to be optimistic about how things will turn out, similar to optimism that the news media projects during a Democrat administration.

marc9000 writes:

Temporary band aids can't replace the normal economic activity of the voluntary exchange of products and services.

Nobody said that it did, but shouldn't the government be helping people in need while the economy is restarting?

I don't consider the government "helping", when all it is doing is REDISTRIBUTING. "Help" involves giving from the "helper", not taking from others and redistributing. U.S. foundings and supporting quotes from its founders shows that they understood this.

Sorry, Marc, public health goes way, way back. It is not an invention of modern Democrats. Where did you ever pick up such a weird idea? Here's a 1918 quarantine notice from a state board of health:

But what doesn't go way back is today's desire by the left to involve the government in unprecedented ways, like free health care for all, the destruction of some businesses in the name of health care, etc.

And are you truly condemning people who don't watch TV news? Are you nuts? One can absorb the written word far faster and in much greater detail than the spoken word. In reading print (at home) and audio (in the car) books, I'd estimate I get through a written book in about half the time of an audio book.

We're having a political discussion. If you miss daily half hour headline news reports, you're missing what millions of only casually interested people around the country are seeing. It's very important, politically. Again, if you choose not to recognize the liberal bias in today's mainstream news reporting, I have nothing more to say on it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3936 by Percy, posted 05-18-2020 4:48 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3961 by Percy, posted 05-25-2020 4:21 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1151
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 3956 of 4426 (876650)
05-24-2020 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3937 by Percy
05-18-2020 5:31 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
Honest reporting and commentary gets rewarded, but the point of my question was how you're judging the credibility of RedState. It's not even a news outlet, just a blog. The Internet has far more crap than quality. If you want a portion of my time point me at known quality and accuracy.

Like the NY Times and Washington Post? Known by whom?

marc9000 writes:

There is a ripple effect that goes all through the economy that can hinder many things that contribute to all deaths. Unemployment / business destruction can lead to more suicides, supply chains can be disrupted that serve hospitals. It goes on and on, when the economy is even partially closed, in violation of the first amendment.

This is mostly unintelligible, but I'd love to see it explained how shutting down businesses in the name of public health violates the First Amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I've bolded the relevant phrase. Interesting to me how we don't see much reference to "separation of church and state" these days, now that we have "state" issuing orders that churches have to close.

I'd love to see it explained how the founders knew about viruses more than a hundred years before they were discovered.

There was the black death of 1348, the great plague of 1665, as only two examples. The founders seemed to think they knew enough about history and human nature to set up a new type of government for a society. It's claimed by historians that they were educated men, I think it's safe to say they knew plenty about contagious diseases, and it's clear they made no provisions for special government takeovers if they happen.

So you think federal, state and local governments are acting unconstitutionally when they take measures to protect public health? I'd love to see this explained, too.

When it takes away a clearly defined constitutional right, (to peaceably assemble), when it drastically re-distributes earnings, closes businesses, yes I think it's unconstitutional.

marc9000 writes:

That can be projected both ways, the mandated closing of some businesses for a long period of time, resulting eventually in a depression rivaling the 1930's could increase numbers of deaths in many ways, suicide, civil unrest as only two of many examples.

You could argue it, but not successfully. According to Suicide and the Economy, every 1 percent increase in unemployment causes a 1 percent increase in the number of suicides. If the unemployment rate rises 30% it would cause around 15,000 more deaths. The novel coronavirus has already killed 90,000.

It could be argued very successfully if all the other death potential, including more than just suicide, is taken into consideration.

quote:
These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs. Deaths of despair.

Then add the predictable deaths from alcohol abuse caused by ­unemployment. Health economist Michael French from the University of Miami found a “significant association between job loss” and binge drinking and alcoholism.

The impact of layoffs goes ­beyond suicide, drug overdosing and drinking, however. Overall, the death rate for an unemployed person is 63 percent higher than for someone with a job, according to findings in the journal Social Science & Medicine.


We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

It is true that Trump has decreased government regulation, but at the expense of employees, the environment and the public coffers. And we had a good economy for six straight years going into the Trump presidency.

The Obama economy wasn't in the same league as the Trump economy. The Obama GDP growth rate was much weaker than Trumps - 1.5 to 2.1 as opposed to Trump's 2.9 to 3.1. Obama's "those jobs aren't coming back", and "you didn't build that", are a stark contrast to what Trump has said and done.

marc9000 writes:

I could elaborate more on TDR,...

Just telling us what the letters of your acronym stand for is all that's asked.

Trump Derangement Syndrome, best defined as simply a knee-jerk opposition to ANYTHING he says or does, no matter how the country could be affected by that opposition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3937 by Percy, posted 05-18-2020 5:31 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3962 by Percy, posted 05-25-2020 6:11 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2155
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 3957 of 4426 (876651)
05-24-2020 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3954 by marc9000
05-24-2020 8:28 PM


Re: Correct actions
So by sending out hundreds of tweets in January, many in response to the impeachment circus, that means he wasn't distracted at all? Not very good logic

I don't see how "the president is so incompetent that he can't handle more than 1 crisis at a time" is supposed to be some kind of defense?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3954 by marc9000, posted 05-24-2020 8:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19881
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 3958 of 4426 (876674)
05-25-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 3953 by marc9000
05-24-2020 8:16 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
marc9000 writes:

But being busy with other things can be perceived as weakness, and it seems to me that a person who is heavily involved in working and paying taxes and not drawing any kind of assistance would have a perspective of how the world works that would be noted by those who are more idle for whatever reason.

The SARS-CoV-2 virus seems to be the easiest way to tell who knows how the world works and how it doesn't. Ask anyone the question, "Is the possibility of infection reduced by wearing a mask when out among people where social distancing cannot be maintained?" The correct answer to this question is obvious. Anyone who answers incorrectly does not know how at least one extremely important aspect of the world works.

Many more Republicans than Democrats give the incorrect answer to this question. The way people answer tends to divide along political lines, not whether they're employed or retired or on night shift or independently wealthy. For too many people what they believe about the real world is governed by their political beliefs or by which politicians they trust, and this kind of thinking is much more dominant in conservative than liberal circles. Do you think the idiot holding this sign is a conservative or a liberal (he was wise to make the sign big enough to hide behind):

My conservative views are very mainstream,...

To whatever degree this is true, the world imposes reality upon you regardless of political views.

Liberalism? Grow the government. Re-distribute earnings, "get even" with successful people. Jealousy, and that's an important term. So much compassion for the lower middle class in the U.S. today, but it's seldom mentioned that practically all U.S. citizens live like kings today compared to average people of 100 years ago. Those people didn't have jealousy problems, because the lifestyles of others weren't thrown in their faces like it is in today's technological age.

Another fact-free paragraph. It tells us a great deal about you and nothing about liberalism.

The reason Trump, (and to a lesser extent, Reagan) are hated so much today is because they've proven that limiting government unleashes prosperity for most citizens, whether they're well off or not.

Trump and Reagan are hated because they showed the way to wealth and prosperity? Really? Can you name a single person who hates Trump and/or Reagan because they made them better off but did it the "wrong way" by limiting government?

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Clarify last sentence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3953 by marc9000, posted 05-24-2020 8:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19881
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 3959 of 4426 (876676)
05-25-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3954 by marc9000
05-24-2020 8:28 PM


Re: Correct actions
marc9000 writes:

So by sending out hundreds of tweets in January, many in response to the impeachment circus, that means he wasn't distracted at all? Not very good logic.

You're right, the straw man you just invented is very poor logic. The actual argument that you insisted on misrepresenting was that if Trump had time to send thousands of tweets then he had time to address the viral threat.

Well, you have to give me credit for providing two links to back up my claims without making bare assertions, like the forum rule states. Whereas, you made bare assertions contradicting them with no supporting evidence.

You require links for common knowledge and recent widely heralded current events? Interesting. If you really need them then sure, just ask, but it's common knowledge and common sense that cloth masks are safe, and the law affecting Medicare compensation for covid-19 patients was part of the CARES act that passed in March.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3954 by marc9000, posted 05-24-2020 8:28 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 3960 of 4426 (876677)
05-25-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3953 by marc9000
05-24-2020 8:16 PM


Re: Maybe a little planning is called for?
As someone who reads regularly but posts rarely, I'll put my two cents in.

You would think I would be Republican. Middle aged middle class white in rather conservative area.

Does the party "support the general welfare" as the Constitution calls for?

What pushes me from the Republicans is the hypocrisy of those running the party. The federal and to some extent the states and localities are run for the benefit of those with money and power (or access).

For example, all those tax reductions from Reagan to Trump increased the wealth of the upper incomes (as percent of wealth & income) but are forcing cuts in programs that benefit the middle & lower incomes.

Remember Trump had his tax cut & then said we couldn't afford to give federal workers a cost of living increase? But we could afford to reduce taxes on those most benefiting from our economy. The Republicans act as if workers don't produce anything of benefit, that only the upper incomes are valuable to our economy.

I live in Cincinnati. The Brent Spence bridge across the Ohio River carries two Interstate highways connecting the north with the south. For over 15 years (that I've lived here) the bridge has been too small and everyone knows it. But there has not been money to replace it. When I commute to the office, every afternoon, on good days, the backup to cross was about a mile. So the commuting workers and the truck drivers are sitting, wasting time & gas.
Instead of Trump's trillion dollar infrastructure program that would benefit everyone, we got a tax cut that gives us an eternal half trillion a year increase in the deficit.

Corporations are allowed to donate huge funds to Super PACS with just the approval of the CEO and board, not the stock holders. The Republicans want to force the unions to have member votes for every donation. Why can't stockholders vote on the donations? I definitely would vote my shares for long term growth in our nation rather than short term profit to a few.

Republicans are anti-abortion but call it pro-life. Then the party wants to kill Obama-care which helps people afford the health care pregnancy, birth, and child raising requires. Push abstinence only education - what are married but low income people supposed to do, just have children they are not ready for? If they truly care about people, they would work on WHY these women feel that abortion is the best option.

Gerrymandering

Make voting harder to supposedly stamp out the microscopic number of fraudulent votes.

Separating children from parents at the borders. Then having NO plans on how to track and reunite families.

Gutting long term science like the CDC.

Calling for investigations of Obama & Clinton but giving Trump a free pass on unethical behavior. So how much money are we paying Trump's clubs so he can golf?

I am not jealous or getting even. I have been doing well but I see the inequities of our current system.

Frankly I don't vote for the Democrats. I vote against the Republicans as the greater evil.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3953 by marc9000, posted 05-24-2020 8:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020