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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Taq
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Posts: 8465
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(3)
Message 4486 of 4573 (883702)
01-07-2021 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 4481 by Phat
01-07-2021 4:54 AM


Re: My Two Cents
Phat writes:

The far right extremists are as troublesome as the far left idealogues.

Far left ideologues haven't stormed Capital Hill as part of an overt insurrection. Big difference.

You guys think they are worse, but there are not as many uneducated nationalist rednecks as there are pissed of minorities and feminists whose major crime is ignoring the authority of God and placing themselves as such.

The fact you think it is a crime to not be Christian is pretty scary.

We need to be aware of painting the opposing political spectrum from our own with too broad a brush.
I am so tired of the political division in our country. Both extremes need to move towards the middle. Nationally first and globally second. And for God sake be honest with what spirit runs your head (and heart)

This moral relativism is pathetic. Elected Democrats have not stirred up an insurrection. Republicans did. There is no comparison.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 4487 by Phat, posted 01-07-2021 2:58 PM Taq has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14881
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 4487 of 4573 (883703)
01-07-2021 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4486 by Taq
01-07-2021 2:53 PM


Re: My Two Cents
Taq writes:

This moral relativism is pathetic. Elected Democrats have not stirred up an insurrection. Republicans did. There is no comparison.

As a moderate I hear arguments from both sides. Each side thinks they are the moral one and that the other side is evil. Thats what I see.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 4490 by PaulK, posted 01-07-2021 3:55 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 4491 by Taq, posted 01-07-2021 6:08 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 4499 by ringo, posted 01-08-2021 11:40 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
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Posts: 33125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 4488 of 4573 (883704)
01-07-2021 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4487 by Phat
01-07-2021 2:58 PM


Re: My Two Cents
Phat writes:

As a moderate I hear arguments from both sides. Each side thinks they are the moral one and that the other side is evil. Thats what I see.

But only one side backs up their assertions with facts, evidence and reasoned argument.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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PaulK
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Posts: 16684
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 4489 of 4573 (883705)
01-07-2021 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4487 by Phat
01-07-2021 2:58 PM


Re: My Two Cents
But it doesn’t matter what they think. The truth matters too.

It is true that there is no evidence of systematic electoral fraud. There have been recounts and audits and they have found nothing.

It is a fact that most of the lawsuits that have been thrown out weren’t about fraud. They were attempts to steal the election by throwing out votes. That the vast majority of those votes were cast in good faith according to the rules laid out at the time, by people fully entitled to vote did not matter to those filing the lawsuits. They were just cynical attempts to manipulate the system.

It is a fact that Pence did not have the authority to reject the ballots sent by the States - let alone accept ballots from pretenders.

So were the people who stormed the Capitol in an attempt to reject the election results doing something good? No. At best they were like the guy who took a rifle to a pizza parlour to “rescue” imaginary children from an imaginary basement. What they did was bad, and they are at the least culpable for not ascertaining the facts before taking such drastic action.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 16684
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 4490 of 4573 (883706)
01-07-2021 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4487 by Phat
01-07-2021 2:58 PM


Re: My Two Cents
Oh, just as an addition I’m sure that the neo-Nazis wearing 6MWE shirts - it stands for “6 Million Wasn’t Enough” - think that they’re good.

It doesn’t mean they aren’t evil. Let’s see you “both sides” that one.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8465
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 4491 of 4573 (883707)
01-07-2021 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 4487 by Phat
01-07-2021 2:58 PM


Re: My Two Cents
Phat writes:

Each side thinks they are the moral one and that the other side is evil. Thats what I see.

That's not it at all. Democrats are not stirring up an insurrection. Joe Biden didn't call a gathering of the most violent left wing activists and tell them to march on a police building that was then lit on fire. No Democratic elected official did anything close to that.

Secondly, police abuse and racial inequalities within the justice system are a real thing, not a made up conspiracy theory about voter fraud. People peacefully protesting for equal treatment under the law is exactly what Americans should be doing. How is that immoral?


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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2158
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 4492 of 4573 (883708)
01-07-2021 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4481 by Phat
01-07-2021 4:54 AM


Re: My Two Cents
The far right extremists are as troublesome as the far left idealogues. You guys think they are worse, but there are not as many uneducated nationalist rednecks as there are pissed of minorities and feminists whose major crime is ignoring the authority of God and placing themselves as such. They stir up as much trouble as the redneck racists though in a different sort of way. I see both extrtemist groups as counter productive and divisive.

get the fuck out of here with this horseshit Phat. When was the last time the gay mafia blew up a federal building, tried to capture and execute a state governor, or tried to disrupt the legitimate transfer of political power.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

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jar
Member
Posts: 33125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 4493 of 4573 (883709)
01-07-2021 9:38 PM


Musing
Since there are now confirmed deaths resulting from the attempt to invade the US Capitol should all those who illegally entered and can be identified be charged with murder?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 16684
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 4494 of 4573 (883710)
01-08-2021 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4493 by jar
01-07-2021 9:38 PM


Re: Musing
So far as I know the rioters didn’t kill anyone directly. However, under US law that may not matter. There are some pretty dubious murder convictions around.

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Tangle
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Posts: 8054
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 4495 of 4573 (883712)
01-08-2021 2:40 AM


So the bully Trump is now shown to be the coward Trump and disowned his followers that acted under his instructions.

The democratic equivalent of being dragged out of a drainage pipe.

Do you not have a public order offence like our incitement to riot?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1211
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 9.1


Message 4496 of 4573 (883713)
01-08-2021 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4495 by Tangle
01-08-2021 2:40 AM


I wonder whether Washington has such a crime on its local books. The Tangerine Turd can pardon federal crimes, but not non-federal ones.

Also, Giuliani and the Baby Turd are in line for any such charges too.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33125
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 4497 of 4573 (883714)
01-08-2021 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 4496 by vimesey
01-08-2021 4:26 AM


Yes, once Trump is out of office States can go for him, but DC is not a state so I'm not sure what the procedure will be. However Georgia and New York as well as the governors of ever State where there were Trump inspired incidents can line up their attorneys.

But remember that the bigger and surer threat is that EVERY State and EVERY Nation where TRUMP INC has ever done business will be going over EVERY financial transaction EVER made buy TRUMP INC or any of his family.

Oh, and he has a $400,000,000.00 personally guaranteed loan payment coming due and NO US bank will lend him a dime.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 4498 of 4573 (883718)
01-08-2021 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 4482 by Phat
01-07-2021 5:11 AM


Re: Religious And Political Ideology Wont Disappear
phat writes:

The political division will continue until you guys accept God or the Republicans give it all up, as ringo eagerly suggests.


I don't know when i ever said anything like that.

The political division will continue as long as people like you sympathize with the extremists.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 4499 of 4573 (883719)
01-08-2021 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 4487 by Phat
01-07-2021 2:58 PM


Re: My Two Cents
Phat writes:

Each side thinks they are the moral one and that the other side is evil.


The Republicans staged a putsch against the USA. Is that moral or evil?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4487 by Phat, posted 01-07-2021 2:58 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19906
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 8.9


(2)
Message 4500 of 4573 (883721)
01-08-2021 12:23 PM


We Knew It All Along
In January of 2017 after Trump had been in office only a week and a half I posted, "As he reacts with such outrage to every perceived slight like pictures of crowd sizes, one wonders how he will react in a true emergency. Legitimate cause for worry."

We knew then that Trump would not be able to handle a disaster like the pandemic, and we marked a milestone yesterday by passing 4000 coronavirus deaths in a single day. But we didn't know then his sheer mendacity as demonstrated by his Ukraine phone call attempting to coerce their prime minister into helping him out with the 2020 electio. We also didn't know then the sheer number of Trump supporters and enablers in positions of power ranging from industry to government itself who would make possible, and who unbelievably continue to make possible, heartrending anti-democratic acts like the insurrection at the capitol building on Wednesday.

It seems very unlikely that Trump can be removed from office in the very few number of days left to him, and so we are left to hope that he causes no more damage in the next 12 days. But he has been shameless, unrepentant and unpredictable throughout his term, and he remains even more so as a wounded beast with the maturity of a child and the capacity for mayhem of the most powerful person in the world.

How do we prevent such men from capturing the public's hopes and dreams and then destroying the nation once in power. I don't think we can. This is perhaps why no nation lasts forever. Turkey seemed to be moving toward democracy but is now moving toward a dictatorship more like Russia. Russia under Boris Yeltsin seemed to be securing Russia's place in the world as a democracy, but Putin turned it into a dictatorship. A demagogue less obvious and transparent than Trump might one day succeed in overturning democracy in America. It seems possible.

Can we prevent appealing and tantalizing lies from taking over the minds of otherwise sane and patriotic Americans while maintaining our constitutional traditions of freedom of speech? Twitter and Facebook and other social media are culpable in spreading the lies, as are news outlets like Fox News and OneAmerica. I tuned in briefly Wednesday night for a few minutes each to Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity and despite the events of the day they hadn't changed their tune one bit. When asked by an interviewee about her reaction to Trump's inciting of the crowd that later invaded the capitol building a Fox News anchor denied that he did so. I don't know how we stop such insanity, and how can we keep our country while a significant proportion of Americans believe dangerous and untrue fantasies and conspiracy theories. I don't know.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Clarification.


Replies to this message:
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