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Author Topic:   Welfare - what is it and who benefits
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(2)
Message 5 of 70 (797129)
01-12-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
01-11-2017 2:14 PM


Nice topic, here is some Aussie data on unemployment vs job vacancies.
http://unemployedworkersunion.com/...kers-v-job-vacancy-data

2016 (November)

Unemployed: 725,200

Underemployed: 1, 059,400

Hidden Unemployment: 1.386 million

Job Vacancies: 163, 700

Ratio of job seekers to job vacancies: 19.36

That's nearly 20 people looking for work for every job vacancy! There's just not enough work. I cant imagine how bad crime would be if not for our social safety net. Newstart(job seekers) allowance is roughly $265 Aus per week. Anyone receiving a welfare payment is also eligible for rent assistance and we have a public housing system that charges on a percentage of income basis.

There are two family tax benefits A and B, my wife and I are eligible for one of them despite a combined annual income upwards of 100k. We are also reimbursed for childcare costs up to $5000 per year(from memory). My wife and I are reimbursed around 50% of the cost of visits to the doctor, we pay nothing for the kids to see a doctor. We have used the local govt hospital on many occasions for injuries and the births of our kids with no out of pocket expense. You do have to pay for prescription medication on the way out though which is subsidised for those on pensions etc. We received a first home buyer grant of $7000.

I got a bit carried away there but I thought it wouldn't hurt to add some insight into a more socialist nation. Maybe you guys will see what you're missing out on 😂


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 01-11-2017 2:14 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2017 11:07 AM Riggamortis has responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 8 of 70 (797139)
01-12-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
01-12-2017 11:07 AM


http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6220.0

A link to the hidden unemployment data. As I understand it unemployed is those without a job and actively looking, underemployed is those with a job but actively looking for more work and the hidden unemployment is people capable of work who do want to work but aren't actively looking. The figure is mostly stay at home parents and students.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2017 11:07 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 01-14-2017 9:14 AM Riggamortis has responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 21 of 70 (797207)
01-14-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
01-14-2017 9:14 AM


I don't consider people not looking for work as unemployed, whereas this seems to assume that everyone capable of working should work.

The figure of 1.3m hidden unemployed is taken from the much larger figure of 6.3m not in the workforce. Of those 6.3m, 1.3m can and do want to work but simply aren't actively looking for whatever reason. So it represent those students and parents who do want to work, it does not suggest that those who don't want to should. Hopefully that clears it up a bit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 01-14-2017 9:14 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2017 5:32 PM Riggamortis has responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 24 of 70 (797211)
01-14-2017 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by NoNukes
01-14-2017 5:32 PM


I see no point in quibbling over the hidden unemployment figure. My point is still valid even ignoring those 1.3m 'hidden unemployed' given the ratio is still more than 10 to 1.

Conservatives like to assume they are all lazy or playing the system but most of them simply can't get a job because there aren't enough to go around.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2017 5:32 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2017 11:08 PM Riggamortis has not yet responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(2)
Message 40 of 70 (797321)
01-17-2017 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by New Cat's Eye
01-16-2017 2:10 PM


Re: Don't Demonize
Do you really expect anything less than derision when you freely admit that your position is based on nothing more than your own subjective feelings? The people in your anecdotes aren't representative of the majority of people who collect welfare payments, according to the actual data.

I'm going to try to make your group project analogy more analogous to reality. If the teacher notices that the bum isn't doing much and awards him a C while the rest of the group gets an A, is that fairer?

In Australia, unemployment payments are less than half the minimum wage, around a third of the median wage and around a quarter of the mean wage. It's not like they're receiving the same benefit as a worker without doing any work. So what's the problem?


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 Message 33 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2017 2:10 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 528 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(2)
Message 67 of 70 (798353)
02-01-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Theodoric
02-01-2017 6:31 PM


US welfare system
As an outsider from a country with a great social safety net, it's rather bemusing to read about the US system. Here, if your son could make the case that his impairment precludes him from working, he would receive around $500 a week on the disability pension. I don't know exactly what he would be entitled to while working, but I imagine he would receive part payment depending on his hours. The benefits he would receive certainly wouldn't be denied to him for working less than 20hrs though, at least. Cutting the safety net because you aren't working enough is utterly asinine.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2017 6:31 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2017 9:40 PM Riggamortis has not yet responded

  
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