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Author Topic:   Science proves that the tomb of Jesus (Christ ?)and James the Just have been found.
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 586 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 99 of 114 (824741)
12-03-2017 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Coyote
11-23-2017 10:45 AM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
Coyote writes:

True believers in any religion have no business doing science, or even talking about science.
Their bias leads them to do the exact opposite of what science does.


You do realize, don't you, that most of the developers of modern science were strong religious believers?
(Egs. Galileo, Kepler, Bacon, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Maxwell, ...)

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

“I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Coyote, posted 11-23-2017 10:45 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Coyote, posted 12-03-2017 10:14 AM kbertsche has not yet responded
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 12-03-2017 1:35 PM kbertsche has responded

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 586 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 103 of 114 (824786)
12-03-2017 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ringo
12-03-2017 1:35 PM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
ringo writes:


They were products of their societies.


It is natural to expect that the religious leanings of the early scientists was simply a reflection of their society. But this is wrong.

As historian of science Ian Barbour wrote:

quote:

Without belittling advances that occurred elsewhere, one can say that seventeenth-century England was the turning point in the history of science, and that the Puritans were its chief agents. Seven out of ten members of the Royal Society were Puritans--a ratio far out of proportion to the population as a whole; most of the virtuosi were active churchmen, and many of the clergy encouraged or themselves took part in scientific pursuits.


Ian G. Barbour, Issues in Science and Religion (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1966), 48.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

“I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 12-03-2017 1:35 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 3:53 AM kbertsche has not yet responded
 Message 105 by ringo, posted 12-04-2017 10:47 AM kbertsche has responded

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 586 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 107 of 114 (824870)
12-04-2017 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by ringo
12-04-2017 10:47 AM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
ringo writes:

Your own quote doesn't show that it's wrong.


As Barbour shows, the 17th century English scientists were much MORE religious than their society. Thus they were not simply a reflection of their society. Newton, for example, wrote more on the Bible than on science, even though his scientific output was voluminous.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

“I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by ringo, posted 12-04-2017 10:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 12-05-2017 10:58 AM kbertsche has responded

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 586 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 109 of 114 (824939)
12-05-2017 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
12-05-2017 10:58 AM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
ringo writes:


Your quote doesn't say anything of the kind. It says that a disproportionate number of scientists were Puritans.


It says that and more. Here’s what Barbour wrote:

“Seven out of ten members of the Royal Society were Puritans--a ratio far out of proportion to the population as a whole; most of the virtuosi were active churchmen, and many of the clergy encouraged or themselves took part in scientific pursuits.“

If you think that this was simply a reflection of society, you must believe that in society at large, most people were ACTIVE churchmen?

I don’t believe this to be the case in 17th century England. I think it is unlikely, even in the most religious societies, that MOST people are ACTIVE churchmen.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

“I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 12-05-2017 10:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by ringo, posted 12-06-2017 2:08 PM kbertsche has not yet responded

  
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