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Author | Topic: Science proves that the tomb of Jesus (Christ ?)and James the Just have been found. | |||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Thanks, I don't feel insulted.
Okay, for some things yes. Some things, no. I don't believe in God because I want to. I believe in God because He responded and I know something is there. I don't really know what it was, exactly, so as I try to deduce finer details I do start getting into preference and choice. But at the root it isn't a choice, it's more of a conclusion.
I can't agree to that.
I dunno - if the believer didn't think they had a good reason to believe it then I don't see why they would. There has to be some reason for believing particular things - otherwise peoples' beliefs would be unrecognizable chaos - and whether or not that reason is good enough is their call and not your's. What isn't good enough for you may be good enough for another.
That's true.
I see what you're saying - maybe it's just a little too nuanced for me. There's a lot of believing what you want in religion, but it's not just simply that.
The data is a noisy mess and it's hard to make sense out of it
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kbertsche Member (Idle past 961 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: |
As Barbour shows, the 17th century English scientists were much MORE religious than their society. Thus they were not simply a reflection of their society. Newton, for example, wrote more on the Bible than on science, even though his scientific output was voluminous. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein “I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger
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ringo Member Posts: 18930 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
Your quote doesn't say anything of the kind. It says that a disproportionate number of scientists were Puritans. The others were also, presumably, professing Christians. No doubt the Arab scientists of the time were professing Muslims and the Chinese scientists of the time were professing Taoists, Buddhists, etc. They were all a product of their cultures. How would you measure "how religious" they were anyway?
Newton, for example, wasn't a Puritan, was he? So your quote doesn't apply to him. Religiously, he was a bit of a nut, so he isn't much of an example.
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kbertsche Member (Idle past 961 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: |
It says that and more. Here’s what Barbour wrote: “Seven out of ten members of the Royal Society were Puritans--a ratio far out of proportion to the population as a whole; most of the virtuosi were active churchmen, and many of the clergy encouraged or themselves took part in scientific pursuits.“ If you think that this was simply a reflection of society, you must believe that in society at large, most people were ACTIVE churchmen? I don’t believe this to be the case in 17th century England. I think it is unlikely, even in the most religious societies, that MOST people are ACTIVE churchmen. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein “I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.” – Erwin Schroedinger
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ringo Member Posts: 18930 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
I asked how you would measure "how religious" somebody was. On what basis do you conclude that the scientists were "more active" than average? And what bearing does that have on anything anyway?
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 1819 Joined: |
The news page is still getting new posts.
https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=james+brother+jesus&FO... The young scholar (who wrote a book documenting the Roman Empire Christians stealing genuine stories of Manicheans who were THE ONES suffering martyrdom under Pagan Rome) wrote for the Daily Beast 5 days ago. quote: Keep checking the modern scholarship. Don't be discouraged if only a sliver of modern "Christians" care about the facts. Just because they don't want to know that the known (to Jerome!) Hebrew Matthew Gospel had Jesus saying at his Last Supper that his sacrifice was to replace all MEAT EATING , doesn't mean it isn't monumentally important. Ignorance still rules, for sure. But. A new discovery could be around the corner, and all could change.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 1819 Joined: |
https://scienceblog.com/...-online-international-partnership
quote: Recent articles from AFTER my post. Found my putting this term into google news: sinai palimpsests quote: There are hopefully more manuscripts that can be looked at than the roughly 100 so far discovered to be palimpsests. (the vast majority in the Sinai library weren't written over) quote: Hopefully there will be more important discoveries than what was made so far. This library has the 2nd largest collection of old manuscripts in the world (the Vatican has more). I don't know if the Vatican manuscripts have write over erasures like the Sinai collection has.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 1819 Joined: |
I just got the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book (with a nice discount) from Amazon for $20.01 shipped (thanks to an 8% Nebraska sales tax, it was a few dollars higher than it should have been).
It just went back up to $37.99 in less than 12 hours (still lower than around $50, when I posted this article). https://www.amazon.com/...is-Family-Jerusalems/dp/0802867456 Most (almost all) of the contributors don't share the views of Tabor and Simcha Jacobovici . quote: The marketplace still has lots of books that are under $20 plus shipping (they tend to go up and down depending on the actual Amazon price). (one is about $21.99 with free shipping) https://www.amazon.com/...0802867456/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr The 2013 Tabor and Jacobovici,The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity, can be gotten for about 25 cents (plus shipping) on the Amazon marketplace. The initial bombshell book, by Jacobovici, came out in 2007. The discovery was expected to be ignored by the leading experts in the field. It actually has not been. And the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book is proof of that. I doubt there will be any bombshells, though the finding of the DNA of a Jesus, son of Joseph, broth of James raises hope that the Pantiera (from Germany) DNA can be somehow found (it wont be). quote: Tabor has been researching the issue and has now 16 posts (he promised back in 2016 to keep doing unprecedented research on the German tomb of the Sidonian - Canaanite! - Pantiera) https://jamestabor.com/?s=pantera His German tombstone says he was born in 22 BCE and died 40 AD. The pagan Celsus and the Talmud says Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier Pantiera. This Pantiera was a Roman soldier. (However,it was a common name for soldiers, being the word for Panther. Spanish-speaking folks commonly call their dogs, Pantera, if they happen to be black and are assumed to be strong and protective. I know of one "Pantera" guard-dog here in Nebraska) This whole tomb issue is a really cool discovery. Just remember that this discovery has touched on several areas of science, and a new scientific technique came about from this controversial tomb find.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 1819 Joined: |
I just got the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book (with a nice discount) from Amazon for $20.01 shipped (thanks to an 8% Nebraska sales tax, it was a few dollars higher than it should have been).
It just went back up to $37.99 in less than 12 hours (still lower than around $50, when I posted this article). https://www.amazon.com/...is-Family-Jerusalems/dp/0802867456 Most (almost all) of the contributors don't share the views of Tabor and Simcha Jacobovici . quote: The marketplace still has lots of books that are under $20 plus shipping (they tend to go up and down depending on the actual Amazon price). (one is about $21.99 with free shipping) https://www.amazon.com/...0802867456/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr The 2013 Tabor and Jacobovici,The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity, can be gotten for about 25 cents (plus shipping) on the Amazon marketplace. The initial bombshell book, by Jacobovici, came out in 2007. The discovery was expected to be ignored by the leading experts in the field. It actually has not been. And the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book is proof of that. I doubt there will be any bombshells, though the finding of the DNA of a Jesus, son of Joseph, broth of James raises hope that the Pantiera (from Germany) DNA can be somehow found (it wont be). quote: Tabor has been researching the issue and has now 16 posts (he promised back in 2016 to keep doing unprecedented research on the German tomb of the Sidonian - Canaanite! - Pantiera) https://jamestabor.com/?s=pantera His German tombstone says he was born in 22 BCE and died 40 AD. The pagan Celsus and the Talmud says Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier Pantiera. This Pantiera was a Roman soldier. (However,it was a common name for soldiers, being the word for Panther. Spanish-speaking folks commonly call their dogs, Pantera, if they happen to be black and are assumed to be strong and protective. I know of one "Pantera" guard-dog here in Nebraska) This whole tomb issue is a really cool discovery. Just remember that this discovery has touched on several areas of science, and a new scientific technique came about from this controversial tomb find. Edited by AdminPhat, : spelling in subtitle
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