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Author
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Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 19 of 993 (798021)
01-30-2017 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
01-30-2017 7:57 AM
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Defying a court order is kind of illegal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 7:57 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 12:27 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 29 of 993 (798034)
01-30-2017 12:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
01-30-2017 11:19 AM
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Re: The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
TYpical liberal confusion. JESUS WAS NOT TALKING TO NATIONS. He was talking to individual believers. YOU personaly are commanded to treat all as you treat your family. OK. So if I personally wouldn't support a government that mistreated my family, I am commanded not to support a government that mistreats foreigners.
The government is not what Jesus was addressing. But I'm pretty sure that the government consists of people. I'm almost sure that Donald Trump, for example, is a person. So shouldn't he be bearing Jesus' admonitions in mind when deciding what executive orders to promulgate? Or does your version of Christian dogma recognize the principle of sovereign immunity, and declare that Hitler or Nero or Pontius Pilate were not obliged to follow God's commandments when acting in their role as government officials?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 11:19 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 32 of 993 (798037)
01-30-2017 12:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
01-30-2017 12:27 PM
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Golly Gosh, defying a Presidential order is probably even more illegal. and in this case certainly is illegal because Trump's order has so much legal weight behind it. That court is wrong and should be impeached. Following an illegal order is in fact illegal, even if it is given by the President --- as you yourself would have unhesitatingly affirmed any time between noon on January 20th 2009 and noon on January 20th 2017. Can you imagine, Faith, what you'd have said if Obama had pressed on with one of his policies after a court ruled he had to stop? Would you have declared then that it was illegal for federal workers to listen to the courts instead of obeying Obama? Monkeys would fly out of your butt before that happened.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 12:27 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 12:43 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 34 of 993 (798042)
01-30-2017 12:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
01-30-2017 12:43 PM
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The executive order is legal through many offices and documents of the government., as the Townhall article says. Defying that order is what is illegal. Is that what they're teaching at Internet Law School nowadays? No, Faith, when a judge issues an injunction that means you have to stop doing the thing. Again can I point out, you --- you whited sepulcher --- that if Obama had followed the legal doctrine you are now expounding, you would have completely lost your shit.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 12:43 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Yes, on American soil. Source: that notorious hotbed of wacko liberals, the Cato Institute. https://www.cato.org/...-migration-national-security-reasons
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 44 of 993 (798059)
01-30-2017 2:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
01-30-2017 2:53 PM
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There is written law on Trump's side. The judge issued a stay, Faith. Trump is breaking the law. Jesus, you people. For eight years Obama obeyed the rule of law and you denounced him as a tyrant. It took eight days for Trump to decide he was above the law and you break out the pompoms and cheerleader costumes.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 2:53 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 46 of 993 (798062)
01-30-2017 3:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
01-30-2017 3:07 PM
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"Whatever is right in response to the stay" is to obey it, not to behave like the tinpot dictator of a banana republic.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 3:07 PM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 8:10 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Pardon my ignorance: What stay are you talking about and how is Trump breaking the law? A federal judge in New York has issued an emergency stay temporarily halting the removal of individuals detained after President Trump issued an order to ban immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. The move appears to mark the first successful legal challenge to the Trump administration and affects those who have arrived in the U.S. with previously approved refugee applications or were in transit with valid visas. Similar rulings were later issued in Virginia, Massachusetts and Washington state. U.S. District Court Judge Ann Donnelly ruled in favor of a habeas corpus petition filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of two Iraqi men who were detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Friday after Trump signed his order. http://thehill.com/...locks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-30-2017 3:13 PM | | New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Ah, okay, that ruling. It says that people who are already here and have valid documentation shouldn't be removed. How is Trump breaking that? 'Cos they're still doing it. Customs agents ignore judge, enforce Trump’s travel ban: ACLU
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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* sigh *
U.S. judges in at least five states blocked federal authorities from enforcing President Donald Trump's executive order restricting immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. However, lawyers representing people covered by the order said some authorities were unwilling on Sunday to follow the judges' rulings.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 63 of 993 (798085)
01-30-2017 6:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
01-30-2017 5:57 PM
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Pretty weird goings on here. All Trump did was what Obama had already done some years ago ... This is, of course, not true.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 5:57 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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What I don't know is: 1) Does the Green Card actually give full Constitutional protection of due process to aliens? Not even a green card is usually necessary. A foreigner in the US has the right to free speech, a fair trial, etc; most of the usual protections a citizen has. In the case of due process:
The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage." More recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Zadvydas v. Davis (2001) that "due process" of the 14th Amendment applies to all aliens in the United States whose presence maybe or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory." So a fortiori this is true of legal residents with green cards.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 249 of 993 (798518)
02-03-2017 1:08 AM
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Kellyanne Conway Goes Full Orwell
Justifying Trump's policies with reference to an entirely fictitious incident, "the Bowling Green massacre" which "most people don’t know [about] because it didn’t get covered". Kellyanne Conway Cites Fake Bowling Green Massacre
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