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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1744 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Faith writes: THEY ARE ALREADY ENEMIES by their ideology. Millions of muslims live peacefully and thankfully in the US. Islam is not our enemy. When we start discriminating against muslims based on their religious beliefs, then we are showing ourselves to be an enemy of Islam. It is really that simple.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3
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Faith writes: I could have been clearer because I always mean to say it's the IDEOLOGY THAT IS OUR ENEMY. Millions of muslims living peacefully in the US, contributing at every level in our economy, disproves your claim. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Faith writes: There is no doubt whatever that Trump's ban is constitutional. The actual experts with years of experience and education who have been hired to determine those very things may very well disagree with you. As much as conservatives like to talk about adhering to the US Constitution, they sure seem to forget that it has a 3rd Article. As with many of these types of decisions, the EO has been suspended until its constitutionality can be determined, which is the right decision.
it is very clear that the President has the right to keep aliens temporarily out of the country if he considers them to be a potential danger to the security of the nation. It becomes unconstitutional when people's visas are not honored because of their religious affiliation. Trump et al. have openly stated that this is a Muslim ban, and that is going to come back to haunt them in court. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
bluegenes writes: But you don't have freedom of religion. Secular laws have always trumped religion when there is conflict. Freedom of religion is a secular law. The courts have been quite clear that you can't discriminate against people based solely on their religious beliefs. Trump et al. have been quite clear from the beginning that this is a ban based on religious beliefs and not on a secular law.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
bluegenes writes: The U.S. will have been discriminating against believers in certain sub-sects of Islam for some time in its immigration policy. Where were the courts? How so?
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Faith writes: The Constitution does not apply to noncitizens. It does apply to government agents issuing and honoring visas.
The US can "discriminate" against any noncitizens it wants for whatever reason, including religions. Since when?
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
bluegenes writes: An individual has this religious belief that you'll happily defend, but if you were a U.S. immigration official and you knew of this religious belief and refused him entry due to that religious belief, are you being unconstitutional? The only thing many of these people are "guilty" of is believing that Muhammad was a prophet of God. These people have already gone through an extensive vetting procedure that lasts 1 to 2 years. They have had background checks, had interviews, and so on. Trump wants to claim that he wants time to install "extreme vetting", but everyone has already seen what that means with respect to his own cabinet. He didn't even vet the people working with him in the White House. We all know what this is. It is a Muslim ban where the sole basis for denying entry is for believing that Muhammad is a prophet of God.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Faith writes: Freedom of religion was always understood not to include a religion that endorsed any kind of criminal behavior according to the laws on criminality. Religions that practice human sacrifice are therefore excluded, as is a religion that practices violent jihad against "infidels". Unfortunately such a commonsense rule is rejected by the prevailing craziness these days. You are painting an entire religion using the actions of a minority. There are millions of muslims that live peacefully in the US, love the US, and are not involved in any criminal behavior. They have more compassion for the fellow Americans in their little finger than you do in your whole body.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
bluegenes writes: Groups like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS etc. aren't just political organisations. They are theological sub sects, and their theologies are very important to them. Just like the Aryan Nation church and other Christian based white supremacist groups are a sub-sect of Christianity.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
bluegenes writes: In the bit you quoted, the "religious belief" is the specific one that the individual's god would want him to fly aeroplanes into skyscrapers, not just any Muslim. The ban includes Muslims who don't believe they should fly airplanes into buildings.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3
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marc9000 writes: That amendment was written about the end of slavery. There was no intent involved to include illegal aliens. If it was limited to slavery then it would have said that it was limited to slavery. No such text exists in the amendment, so it covers more than slavery.
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
marc9000 writes: The Constitution isn't amended to express sentiments, it's amended to make changes. You contradict yourself just a paragraph later: "The 1866 Congress was not thinking about illegal immigrants AT ALL when that amendment was written."
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Taq Member Posts: 10350 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Faith writes: Then shoot me because I don't want to live in a Leftist-defined America. Which parts bother you the most?
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