Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

Hi, Faith. Long time no see. Well, when our modern democratic republics overthrew the old feudal order, we decided that a person's ancestry is irrelevant in how we deal with them. We treat a person based on who she is. I don't see how evolution changes any of this.

Well, that would be the conclusion from their theology. Their god is perfect and always does whatever is the absolute best. In any situation, there is one absolute best course of action. Ergo, their god has no free will, and planning would be a useless trait. It's not even clear whether their god is even a conscious being.

Okay, I'm trying to understand why being "just a collection" of atoms implies that we can't come up with our own meanings in life.I mean, it's like saying that all paintings are just collections of atoms so that one is just as good as the other. Or do fundamentalists need God to tell them which paintings are beautiful?

How does someone bigger than you telling you what to do give your life meaning?If I make a child laugh by making a funny face, and I do that without being told to by someone bigger than me, why does that make my life meaningless?

Ha ha! I'm sure that you meant, "We have minds; therefore we can determine our own meanings."But the second time I read it, it somehow got interpreted in my mind as, "We were given minds for the purpose of determining our own meanings."Food for thought, theists!

That's pretty much true...as long as you mind your own business. But if you were to decide to harass a same-sex couple (or if your business discriminates against a same-sex couple in a jurisdiction that protects sexual orientation in its anti-discrimination laws), you'll find that the law becomes pretty relevant real quick.

Okay, I admit I'm beginning to lose track of where this is going. How much DNA should we share with a banana before we can find meaning in our lives.

I thought the question was clear enough, but maybe not. Do you really need me to clarify my point, or are you deciding to not answer the question? Added by edit:Okay, in case my point was obscure and I need to clarify, I've decided to give a proper reply. Message 778Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and give a proper response to this to save some time. You may have already responded to similar questions, but by the time I've come to this thread, the conversation has already moved ahead and become (to a late comer) confusing.-For the record, I am an atheist and I accept the theory of evolution as the unifying theory of biology that has passed all the scientific tests put to it.So:I find meaning in my life and find it rather enjoyable over all. I also have a sense of morality upon which I act.What is your issue with that?

I don't think this is Dredge's point, but I'll go ahead and answer one of you points. Scientific theories are descriptive - they explain why the world is the way it is. They are not prescriptive - they don't tell us what are ethical decisions should be. Any "meaning" that can be taken from a scientific theory, if any, is up to the individual.Saying that the theory of evolution implies we should all act selfish is the same as saying the theory of gravity means we should all crawl on our bellies and live in valleys.Edited by Chiroptera, : Hit submit instead of preview.Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.Edited by Chiroptera, : Serious typo. Yikes!

If I may be allowed to be pedantic, evolution is about certain gene combinations surviving into the next generation.Usually this is accomplished by the survival of the individual long enough to produce offspring. For some species, though, an individual making a sacrifice to help related individuals survive to reproduce can have the same effect.In either case, the result is the species thrives.

Oh, God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man you must be puttin' me on"
God says, "No", Abe say "What?"
God say "You can do what you want Abe but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe said, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God say, "Out on Highway 61"Bob Dylan

This comment is not appropriate for this thread. I have responded here: Message 190.

But then, so does everyone else, too.

Welcome back, Dredge. And I look around and that's pretty much what I see. A lot of different people who seem to have their own codes of morality. And that's just the Christians! Include the non-Christians, and it really does seem to be anything.And yet we seem to be able to deal with it. Rather than living in a Mad Max dystopia, we seem to be living in more or less functioning societies where we are capable of deciding that some thing are differences of opinion that we can live with, and others are egregious enough that we need to enact laws to constrain them.- Except when I look around and see the wide variety of morals - even among the Christians! - it appears that God isn't doing all that effective job at letting people know what is right and wrong. So it appears that believing in God leads to exactly the same situation that you were worried about.-If I recall correctly, your original point was that if the theory of evolution were true, then we'd have no basis for morality and/or our lives are meaningless. You never really countered the fact that those of us who accept the theory of evolution do have meaningful lives and we do have a sense of right and wrong upon which we act.Did you want to continue that discussion, or have you decided to move on?