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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 5 of 1006 (798462)
02-02-2017 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 3:56 PM


Well, you go ahead and try to establish morality from a theistic standpoint, and we'll see if you can do any better.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 3:56 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 10:43 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 24 of 1006 (798507)
02-02-2017 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 10:43 PM


How am I doing so far there, Dr A

Since you haven't tried, you have failed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 10:43 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:36 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 1006 (798515)
02-03-2017 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Dawn Bertot
02-02-2017 11:36 PM


Ah Dr Inadequate your always good for a larf, not much else, but you do succeed in that area

And you're still not going to try? Is this because you regard the task as hopeless or merely because you're lazy?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-02-2017 11:36 PM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 58 of 1006 (798591)
02-03-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
02-03-2017 2:22 PM


Has anybody mentioned the well known very vociferous atheist from some years ago, I can't think of his name, who became a theist (not a Christian) because he realized evolution could not account for morality and human consciousness. It's really indisputable ...

If it was really indisputable, wouldn't there be a good argument for it somewhere?

The decision of the atheist who became a theist had to be based on some pretty complicated analysis of possibilities in the natural world ...

Or on crass stupidity. That would be consistent with the complete, utter, glaring absence of a "complicated analysis of possibilities in the natural world" proving that "evolution could not account for morality and human consciousness". Whereas stupidity is abundant and easy to find, especially in creationist apologetics.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 79 of 1006 (798658)
02-04-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Dawn Bertot
02-04-2017 12:46 AM


Re: Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
You act morally because of the intrinsic law put inside of you by the creator.

But I don't act morally. I've picked up sticks on Saturday. I've eaten shellfish. I've worn garments woven out of more than one kind of fabric.

And more generally it seems that we don't all have the same intrinsic law put inside of us by God, since we all think that different things are right and wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-04-2017 12:46 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 02-04-2017 12:09 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 02-04-2017 12:18 PM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 90 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-05-2017 1:04 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 84 of 1006 (798689)
02-04-2017 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
02-04-2017 12:18 PM


Re: Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
The Law written on the human heart isn't a perfect reflection of the written Law in the Old testament, because we're fallen and get our own ideas mixed up with God's ...

And so that explains why us all having the same moral law written on our hearts by the same god looks exactly like us not all having the same moral law written on our hearts by the same god.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 101 of 1006 (798747)
02-05-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Dawn Bertot
02-05-2017 1:04 AM


Re: Religion Cannot Rationally Explain Morals
No one said you don't have the freewill to ignore the intrinsic law inside of you anymore than you would a traffic law.

But, again, I said we don't think that the same things are right and wrong. It's not that we all recognize the same morality, but some of us are ignoring it. It's that we do not in fact recognize the same morality.

For example, the old testament authors thought it right to murder a man for picking up sticks on a Saturday. Now, this is not something I acknowledge in principle as an obligation but casually ignore, like someone running a red light; it is something I actively find ridiculous and disgusting.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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 Message 90 by Dawn Bertot, posted 02-05-2017 1:04 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 215 of 1006 (799672)
02-13-2017 1:02 AM


I haven't been following the thread. Did Dawn ever come up with a rational theistic explanation for morality?
Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 301 of 1006 (800307)
02-21-2017 8:36 PM


So, just checking in, did Dawn Bertot come up with a theistic justification of morals?
Replies to this message:
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 Message 303 by Tangle, posted 02-22-2017 2:26 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 393 of 1006 (801186)
03-03-2017 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Dawn Bertot
03-03-2017 6:58 AM


Re: The game is over, you lost. Get over it.
Right. Some people like talking to other people some people like killing and eating other people, this is why humans and animals cannot decide what is moral and shouldn't try.

You'll be shocked to learn that many people have made such a decision. For example, many of them have decided that the precepts contained in the Bible are moral. Someone should really tell them to stop.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Dawn Bertot, posted 03-03-2017 6:58 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 481 of 1006 (804535)
04-10-2017 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Dredge
04-10-2017 8:48 PM


For example, one could argue from "science" that a human being has no more worth than a bug ...

One could? Go on then. Give it a try.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Dredge, posted 04-10-2017 8:48 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 496 by Dredge, posted 04-11-2017 7:14 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 487 of 1006 (804578)
04-11-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 483 by Davidjay
04-11-2017 2:16 AM


AGREED, everything in evolutionary teaching states that everything just happened by chance and LUCK ...

Whom do you hope to deceive by drooling out this stupid lie?

... and so logically speaking morals to them according to their teaching, just happened along by chance

Whom do you hope to deceive by drooling out this stupid lie?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 500 of 1006 (804632)
04-11-2017 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by Dredge
04-11-2017 7:52 PM


My point is, an atheist who believes that evolution is a scientific fact cannot argue that a human life is worth more than a life of a bug.

Yes he can. Obviously.

because to do so is to contradcit the very science he holds to be true.

No it doesn't. Obviously. Which is why you can't argue for this.

Such an atheist must also accept that since life is the product of a blind, meaningless process, life itself is meaningless. So he cannot argue that his life has meaning because to do so is to contradict the very science he holds to be true.

Atheists are not obliged to commit the genetic fallacy.

Imagine if you turned the same crazy illogic on your own beliefs. "A creationist must also accept that since humans are the product of an omnipotent invisible sinless being, humans are themselves omnipotent, invisible, and sinless. So he cannot argue that humans are visible because to do so is to contradict the very religion he holds to be true."

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Dredge, posted 04-11-2017 7:52 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2017 1:59 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 501 of 1006 (804634)
04-11-2017 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by Dredge
04-11-2017 7:14 PM


One bunch of arranged atoms is no more important than any other bunch of arranged atoms and no biological machine is any more important than any other biological machine.

This seems to be obviously false, so you're going to need to argue for it rather than asserting it. There seems to be no more basis for you to assert that all collections of atoms are equally important than there is for you to assert that they are equally heavy, or equally hot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Dredge, posted 04-11-2017 7:14 PM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 507 of 1006 (804666)
04-12-2017 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by Davidjay
04-12-2017 1:09 AM


We are familiar with your absurd dogma, there is no need for you to repeat it.

There is a crying need for you to find some evidence for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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