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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 710 (799881)
02-17-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


The rest is true. Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.
Did you see the press conference yesterday? What did you think of it?
Did Trump actually have the greatest electoral college margin since Ronald Reagan? Or is there some poll somewhere that shows Trump was right about that?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 710 (799887)
02-17-2017 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:58 AM


I don't know how he got the electoral college number wrong. Maybe he meant his number was better than Republicans since Reagan.
If he meant that, he'd still be wrong. George HW Bush got 426 electoral votes. The only president since Reagen that Trump surpassed was George W Bush.
I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.
Trump was confronted with the real numbers and simply said that he "heard it somewhere." There is nothing to find out. I suppose if you believe something untrue, you are not lying when you repeat it.
I still believe there was massive voter fraud myself, there's a ton of very suggestive facts in that direction; I hope eventually somebody will demonstrate it beyond a doubt.
Yeah, I know you believe that. I was hoping for explanations that don't begin and end with baseless conspiracy theories.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:58 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 710 (799888)
02-17-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-17-2017 10:07 AM


Your NoNukes quote from his Message 409 was only referring to the Trump approval ratings of 45%. I agree with you that that doesn't qualify as being "in the toilet", but it *is* the lowest of any modern president in the first month of his term.
Actually, I only quoted Republican approval numbers from an opinion piece. Trump's actual approval ratings are 40% with a 55% disapproval rating. If that does not constitute toilet, it is because his ratings have never been in the celebration range with which most other presidents start their terms.
Edited by NoNukes, : Toilet is the right word.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 18 of 710 (799901)
02-17-2017 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:35 AM


Did you ever see any of them ask such disrespectful questions of Obama? Did they ever question his credibility when he lied about how people could keep their own doctors and wouldn't have to pay more with Obamacare?
Your memory is very selective. The press was all over Obama's statement that "'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it ...' Perhaps this is an example of how you view reality rather than some example of a biased press.
At the very least, surely you can agree that Trump's actions have been controversial even if you agree with them. The idea that the press cannot then ask difficult questions seems a bit silly.
Surely you noticed Trump insulting some reporters before they even asked their questions.
I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources. Also about the infiltration of the Townhall meetings.
Translation to regular speak: "I believe every wingnut theory ever presented."
Of course, you can find BS on the internet. What is questionable is your ability to separate the chaff from the wheat? How you always end up on the wrong end of that task on every single subject from vaccines, to geology, to politics is a marvel.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:32 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 710 (799903)
02-17-2017 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by caffeine
02-17-2017 1:41 PM


And yet, I know that 'everybody I know' is a tiny insignificant fraction of humanity. 'Everybody I know' is not a representative sample of anything - not even the place where I live, so it seems perfectly plausible that there are 100s of millions of Trump supporters elsewhere, even if I never meet any of these people I read about on the internet or see on TV.
The above is one sentence out of an excellent post.
The country is highly polarized. Anyone who cannot accept that huge sections of the population see Trump differently than they do is fairly naive. Of course "all of the folks I know" is not a representative sample of anything but me.
More than half of folks voted against Trump. Many if not all of them were expecting exactly the kinds of things that Trump is currently not doing. Why would it be strange that Trump is extremely unpopular at least that portion of folks?
Again, I am still waiting to hear some earnest opinions from conservatives. Surely their opinions are not all based on conspiracy theories based on Drudge report and Infowars>

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by caffeine, posted 02-17-2017 1:41 PM caffeine has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 32 of 710 (799920)
02-17-2017 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
02-17-2017 5:32 PM


Funny how people here who demand evidence from me can just go on and on about my "[in]ability to separate the chaff from the wheat" as if that were an objective judgment rather than your jaundiced opinion.
And yet you've just displayed an inability to evaluate claims of witchcraft and a superstitious view of your own life.
You are right, my post was just opinion. But all I have to do to demonstrate your inability to vet your own sources is to quote from your posts, to count the number of times you miss stuff contrary to what you say in the sources you, yourself provide, and the sheer number of ridiculous conspiracy theories you adopt.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 710 (799938)
02-18-2017 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
02-17-2017 6:24 PM


Keeper
You would dismiss Norman Dodd's testimony as similar to conspiracies about the moon landing? You are NOT worth talking to. Your opinions are worth nothing, and your advice to me is beyond insulting. There is so much in this world to cry about if you don't cry there's something very wrong with you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 6:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 02-18-2017 4:03 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 710 (799940)
02-18-2017 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
02-18-2017 4:03 AM


Re: Keeper
Have you seen the interviews with Norman Dodd? Do you also dismiss them as lies?
Uh, this is pretty much a rabbit hole. Let's just say that I'm glad to learn that you are not a moon landing conspiracy promoter .

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 02-18-2017 4:03 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 710 (800032)
02-19-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
02-19-2017 12:36 PM


Re: Criticism vs. Sabotage and then there is Pizzagate
When he called out CNN for fake news it was for treating that fake Russian "dossier" as true.
Except that CNN did not do any such thing. They reported that there was a dossier, that Trump and Obama had been briefed on the dossier and they reported the contents. More recently CNN reported that some of the contents had been confirmed but that none of the confirmed content involved the salacious allegations.
Trump's calling out of CNN as having put out fake news was and is a complete lie. I challenge you to find any details that show anything to the contrary.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 12:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 2:33 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 710 (800033)
02-19-2017 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
02-19-2017 1:02 PM


Re: Pizzagate - There's something to it???
I didn't mention Hillary. I heard some names including hers associated with it but what I posted is just the basic facts as I know them. Those facts alone are pretty creepy
Most of what you reported was a few facts like letters included words about pizza, followed by interpretations that are likely complete bullshit, such as "nobody talks about pizza that way".
The origins of this story are well known. The story is wrapped around a few things that are facts but that are quite innocent and some things that are manufactured (the photos of children for example).
I would love to see either you or HG try to put together a narrative around the story being the least bit plausible. But I cannot take either of your words at face value. Make your best case.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 1:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 2:29 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 710 (800062)
02-19-2017 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
02-19-2017 2:29 PM


Re: Pizzagate - There's something to it???
I merely claim that the language is very very strange and couldn't be referring to pizza, also can't imagine what "innocent" reference they could possibly have.
Your claim is not fact and you did not quote any email language so we cannot even say that your claim is about what is "obvious" as if that were an actual argument. I explicitly said that was your characterization of the reference to pizza that is not fact. Are you going to quit stalling and back up your claim or are you going to continue to insist that it is my job to support your claims.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 2:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 7:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 710 (800064)
02-19-2017 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
02-19-2017 2:33 PM


Re: Criticism vs. Sabotage and then there is Pizzagate
They actually hadn't been briefed beyond a mere mention as I recall, and since there was no evidence for it and it stinks so bad they should have withheld it.
So now the report has gone from fake news to being just news that you wish was not reported. Let's recall that your original statement is that they treated the story as if it were true when they clearly did no such thing.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 2:33 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 710 (800099)
02-20-2017 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Faith
02-19-2017 7:20 PM


Re: Pizzagate - There's something to it???
I did think everyone would be at least superficially aware of the language in the email if nothing else, and wouldn't dispute its strangeness. That should of course be the case but I forget, this is the alternative universe of EvC.
So not a single quote of strange language from any of the emails? Instead protesting that your conclusions are obvious and that you should not even be asked to demonstrate even one example?
I'm going to stop pretending to be surprised.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 7:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 130 of 710 (800105)
02-20-2017 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
02-19-2017 10:49 PM


Re: Emails
I know of no adults who would ever describe the presence of children at a party as "entertaining." And I'm sure you don't either.
It sounds to me like you are just inclined to find dirt where folks are claiming there is dirt.
Surely you are old enough to remember the Art Linkletter show with the "Kids still say the darndest things" segment. What was the premise of that segment other than the entertainment value and wisdom shared by the youngest among us? Art published books full of that stuff almost of all of which is still capable of entertaining folks today.
I suppose using your inane standard, folks who read those books are pedophiles.
I frequently relate things my kids did when they were young to other folks and for the most part folks find that stuff somewhere between amusing and gut busting laughter inducing. Okay, some of it is boring to people who are not my kids parents. But by and large, the younger the kids, the more funny the stories. So, yeah, there is nothing particularly strange about referring to young kids as being entertaining.
Of course if you are looking for some reason to find a pedophile behind every email, then you can turn lots of innocent language, like, "isn't she just adorable", into nasty stuff. That's what I think you are doing here.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 10:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 710 (800106)
02-20-2017 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
02-19-2017 10:50 PM


Re: Worship of Obama: yes it is
I don't understand why you are going to such lengths to rationalize something that is so clearly weird as children singing adulatory songs about a President.
Do you believe that this practice you are describing occurred among liberals in general? Given that Obama was not responsible, is there some reason that it reflects on him or the huge number of his supporters in any way.
What is the difference between you picking on that video, and me claiming that some random Trump supporter who happens to be a neo-naxi represents you? Because I would consider both ideas to be pretty idiotic.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 10:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
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