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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 9 of 1484 (802096)
03-12-2017 8:09 AM


Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Same sex marriage is NOT an attack on Christianity just as gay pastors or priests or women pastors and priests are not an attack on Christianity.
Marriage is a secular contract. Sorry but that is the fact. It has nothing to do with Christianity or religion.
Your Chapter of Club Christian is free to believe otherwise and can even refuse to recognize gay marriage within your Chapter of Club Christian but that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that your beliefs are not relevant to the reality of other people marriages.
Edited by jar, : left a not not there

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 11 of 1484 (802098)
03-12-2017 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
03-12-2017 8:12 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Faith writes:
Great. So we'll obey God anyway and you can punish us for it.
No Faith, you will not get punished for obeying God. You can get punished for breaking the laws.
But you are not obeying God anyway but rather perverting Jesus message. If you believe Gay Marriage is a sin then do not marry someone of the same sex.
If your Chapter of Club Christian wants to tell same sex couples they cannot belong to your Chapter of Club Christian then fine. No one has said that you must do so.
But marriage is a secular contract. Even the marriages performed in your Chapter of Club Christian are only valid because the secular authority says so.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:36 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 13 of 1484 (802100)
03-12-2017 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
03-12-2017 8:36 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Faith writes:
Ah well, so more sophistry, more word magic, more illogic in the service of not only making sure we get punished for denying gay marriage but can't even have our own beliefs about it.
Of course you can have your own beliefs but your beliefs have nothing to do with reality.
You are even free to believe that same sex marriages are an attack on your Chapter of Club Christian.
What you are not free to do is to try to impose your beliefs on people who are not members of your Chapter of Club Christian.
Faith writes:
As I pointed out on the other threads, it is for "breaking the law" that Christians got thrown to the lions in Rome, and in ancient Babylon, and beaten to a pulp by the KGB (such as for meeting with other Christians to worship and pray), and great men were put to the stake by Rome for translating the Bible. Yet you go on with this craziness about how it's not about obeying God?
I did more than that Faith. I went on to show that the Bible itself shows it is not about obeying God but rather another sign of the wilful ignorance of much of Christianity.
The Bible itself says that even common decency takes precedence over following God's laws. I will repeat here for you yet again.
2Kings:5 writes:
17 If you will not, said Naaman, please let me, your servant, be given as much earth as a pair of mules can carry, for your servant will never again make burnt offerings and sacrifices to any other god but the Lord. 18 But may the Lord forgive your servant for this one thing: When my master enters the temple of Rimmon to bow down and he is leaning on my arm and I have to bow there alsowhen I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the Lord forgive your servant for this.
19 Go in peace, Elisha said.
Helping others, even in something as major as their worship of a different God is not just forgiven but seen as actually obeying God.
Those who refuse to bake a cake or rent a room or any other act of discrimination because they believe it is a sin are simply ignorant of what we are charged by the Bible to do.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:36 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:51 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 16 of 1484 (802103)
03-12-2017 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-12-2017 8:51 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Faith writes:
I see, so I'm NOT allowed to have my beliefs, I have to have yours.
No, you are free to have your beliefs. As I said, what you are not free to do is impose your beliefs on anyone who is not a member of your Chapter of Club Christian.
You are also not free to assert that your beliefs are Biblical without them being challenged.
You are not free to break the law based on your beliefs.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 8:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:11 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 20 of 1484 (802108)
03-12-2017 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Coragyps
03-12-2017 9:06 AM


Re: False equivalence
The gays were simply doing what Christians are charged to do; help the weak, educate the ignorant, protect the helpless.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Coragyps, posted 03-12-2017 9:06 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 23 of 1484 (802111)
03-12-2017 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:12 AM


Re: False equivalence
Faith writes:
Good for them. They were also implying that they know the law is an ass.
You are free to assert that however that has nothing to do with reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:16 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 25 of 1484 (802113)
03-12-2017 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:11 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Faith writes:
Why do you keep asserting the obvious? Not free for this that and the other, yes we know that.; It's because the law says we are not free to follow our Christian conscience that we expect to be punished. What else is new?
Again, that is simply not true Faith. You are not free to impose YOUR Chapter of Club Christian's beliefs on those who are not members of your Chapter of Club Christian.
The law says absolutely nothing about your beliefs.
AbE Simply stop asserting that you represent Christianity.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:18 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 28 of 1484 (802116)
03-12-2017 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:16 AM


Re: False equivalence
Faith writes:
The reality is we get punished for obeying God.
I looked up the Colorado case too: Masterpiece cakeshop. They were sued for denying a gay couple a wedding cake and the court decided for the gay couple and they took it to the supreme court. Last news is that the owner of the business decided not to make any more wedding cakes. Is that punishment enough for you?
Again, you are not obeying God. You are perverting what the Bible actually says.
What I would want Faith would be Christians that actually reflected what the Bible and Jesus said and did not appear as ignorant, selfish, bigoted, evil racists marketing a picayune little god unworthy of respect or worship.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:16 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:33 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 29 of 1484 (802117)
03-12-2017 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:18 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Faith writes:
Nor did the law requiring worship of Caesar, nor the one requiring worship of Nebuchadnezzar, nor the law forbidding the translation of Bibles.
And if those who suffered for not worshiping Caesar had not been so ignorant of what the Bible actually said then they would not have suffered.
Faith the cure for ignorance is knowledge.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 32 of 1484 (802120)
03-12-2017 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:33 AM


Re: False equivalence
Faith writes:
Again, apparently we are not allowed to have our own beliefs, we are required to have yours.
Anyway, I looked up another of the businesses that refused to cater to a gay wedding, the florist in Washington, Baronelle Stutzman. She lost her case too of course and was fined $1000. I don't know where things stand at the moment.
The photograph in New Mexico also lost her case: Error | ChristianityToday.com
I think there was another bakery in the same situation. Maybe I can find it.
No one doubts that people who break anti-discrimination laws get sued and lose in court.
But the point Faith is that why they discriminated is not the issue.
There is no attack on Christianity.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:42 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 36 of 1484 (802124)
03-12-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
03-12-2017 9:42 AM


Re: Logical La La Land
Faith writes:
Logically you live in la-la land like most Leftists, and the irrationality and illogic of it all are maybe the hardest part of being attacked by anti-Christian laws.
The laws are not anti-Christian as you well know. And there are Chapters of Club Christian that support same-sex marriage, recognize same-sex marriages and even perform same-sex marriages.
Again Faith, reality simply shows you are wrong.
The Bible shows you are wrong.
Basic common courtesy shows you are wrong.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 9:42 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 49 of 1484 (802145)
03-12-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
03-12-2017 3:47 PM


Marraige is a secular contract.
Faith writes:
Marriage is an ordinance of God, however it is performed.
Again Faith, that is simply factually wrong. You might believe something like that but is is still factually wrong and just ignorance or denial of reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 3:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:05 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 52 of 1484 (802148)
03-12-2017 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
03-12-2017 4:05 PM


Re: Marraige is a secular contract.
Faith writes:
You know nothing.
Hint.
I know we are in the US in 2017 discussing marriage in the US in 2017.
Marriage is a secular contract.
Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity.
It really is that simple Faith.
And Faith, you know nothing. Even in Biblical times marriage was a secular contract. Learn what is necessary for a valid Jewish marriage.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 58 of 1484 (802154)
03-12-2017 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
03-12-2017 4:28 PM


Re: Marraige is a secular contract.
Faith writes:
Marriage being a secular contract in today's world does not change its status as an ordinance given by God. It doesn't matter how the marriage is brought about, marriage is an ordinance of God. Different cultures do marriage in lots of different ways. No matter what the way marriage is an ordinance of God.
We know you assert that but again, your beliefs have nothing to do with the factual reality.
Faith writes:
Legalizing gay marriage means anyone who regards it as a violation of God's law is forced by the law to accept it as valid or refuse to accept it and take the consequences.
That is a reasonable summary.
Faith writes:
That means it IS an attack on Christianity just as the law of Caesar worship was an attack on Christianity.
And there you go posting really stupid things again.
It does not mean it is an attack on Christianity just as the law of Caesar was not an attack on Christianity as has been explained to you in this very thread.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:51 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34123
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 63 of 1484 (802159)
03-12-2017 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
03-12-2017 4:56 PM


Re:
Faith writes:
ABE: Actually, strictly speaking it isn't a law and shouldn't be regarded as a law because it was initiated by the Supreme Court, not the legislature in one of the many usurpings of law the SCOTUS has become famous for. It's treated as law, however, it is enforced as law, even though it is in actual reality an illegal law.
Again, that is simply another example of your ignorance as has been explained to you in the past. The decisions by the SCOTUS is one of the three Supreme Sources of Law in the US. It cannot be illegal.
It really is that simple Faith. Learn a little about the US and it's Constitution.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 4:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 5:07 PM jar has replied

  
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