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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 1484 (802088)
03-12-2017 7:23 AM


To continue from the Fake News thread where it was off topic,

Except for the fact that the punishment is mild compared to torture, beheading, being eaten by lions and buried alive, there is nothing in principle different between a Christian's being required to worship Caesar or Nebuchadnezzar and being required to do something that to the Christian conscience implies acceptance of anything else that God has absolutely forbidden, such as gay marriage.

Rrhain in Message 699 is claiming there is nothing special about catering a wedding so Christians can't claim there is, we have to believe him instead of the Bible and our conscience.

There's probably nothing that will get the point across to him, but just to repeat it: A wedding cake is usually a custom affair made especially for the occasion, according to specifications given by the customer, it's not a generic cake you can buy from the display case. It's also not like a birthday cake since Christians have no reason to object to gays or anybody else celebrating a birthday. They can have all the custom features on their birthday cake they want.

What they can't have from a Christian baker is a special order for a gay wedding because that puts the baker in the position of treating the wedding as legitimate, and nothing rrhain has to say about it makes one iota of difference to that fact. God has decreed what marriage is, and has told us that homosexual acts are sin; that makes gay marriage a slap in God's face, which we will not participate in. Where there is a law requiring us to accept gay marriage we simply cannot obey it and must take the punishment.

The same is true for a florist asked to design arrangements for a gay wedding. They can buy all the flowers they want and do the arrangements themselves, but a Christian florist cannot do it for them because that puts him or her in the position of treating the wedding as legitimate. The florist could of course design arrangements for them for any other kind of event. Same for a Christian photographer. Again, the photographer could take pictures for any other kind of party, just not a gay wedding.

This has been discussed over and over at EvC but I guess no subject here ever reaches an actual finale.

In Message 700 RR continues:

rr writes:

Faith writes:

You are entitled to your view of it, but so are the Christians who won't perform certain actions because they understand them as legitimizing something the Bible condemns.

Nope.
The law doesn't care what your "point of view" is.
Do you think you have a religious exemption to the law?

Why is this so hard to understand? Are you unaware that we were a Christian society up until very recently, which would never have dreamed of legalizing something as antichristian as "gay marriage?"

Now that the west is regressing to paganism we have increasingly pagan laws which eagerly shove Christianity off the map. SO we now do NOT have religious freedom, we are subject to paganism, and in such a legal circumstance we have no choice but to obey God rather than man and take the consequences.

Capiche?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by frako, posted 03-12-2017 7:36 AM Faith has responded
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 7:42 AM Faith has responded
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-12-2017 9:47 AM Faith has responded
 Message 40 by Modulous, posted 03-12-2017 12:32 PM Faith has responded
 Message 105 by Rrhain, posted 03-13-2017 5:03 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 209 by Pressie, posted 03-16-2017 7:04 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 865 by Dredge, posted 04-03-2017 3:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1207 by RAZD, posted 06-26-2018 7:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1416 by Pressie, posted 06-20-2019 8:28 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1475 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 5:28 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 1484 (802091)
03-12-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
03-12-2017 7:42 AM


Re: False equivalence
How amazing that nonChristians believe they can tell us what it means to be obedient to God or not. What chutzpah. At least five different Christian business owners independently understood that it was forbidden by God to use their business to cater a gay wedding, but any old unbeliever can tell us they're wrong.

Just proof that paganism rules I guess. But who cares, we'll follow our conscience whether you get it or not and take the punishment. Sheesh.

No it is not about general "discrimination," it's specifically about gay marriage. And again, who are you to tell us what it's about?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 7:42 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 8:52 AM Faith has responded
 Message 85 by dwise1, posted 03-13-2017 2:44 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 202 by MiguelG, posted 03-15-2017 9:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 1484 (802092)
03-12-2017 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by frako
03-12-2017 7:36 AM


Oh yeah, we have to hear about that old canard again too.

That's one of the laws specifically given to Israel and nobody else to teach them spiritual truths and to set them apart from the heathen nations. They apply to nobody but ancient Israel. Other laws were fulfilled by Christ.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by frako, posted 03-12-2017 7:36 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by frako, posted 03-12-2017 7:53 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 1484 (802094)
03-12-2017 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by frako
03-12-2017 7:53 AM


No it doesn't. It's one of the moral laws, which applies to everyone everywhere in all time, because it's of the Moral Law that runs the universe. It's usually included in preaching about the Ten Commandments under the prohibition of adultery. It is not one of the "ceremonial" laws which apply to Israel only.

Who cares what "sounds silly" to you?

The spiritual meaning of some of the ceremonial laws applies to everybody too but it would be ridiculous to try to discuss that with you.

ABE: Consider it symbolic of adultery.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by frako, posted 03-12-2017 7:53 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 1484 (802097)
03-12-2017 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
03-12-2017 8:09 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Great. So we'll obey God anyway and you can punish us for it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:09 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:20 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 1484 (802099)
03-12-2017 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
03-12-2017 8:20 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Ah well, so more sophistry, more word magic, more illogic in the service of not only making sure we get punished for denying gay marriage but can't even have our own beliefs about it.

As I pointed out on the other thread, it is for "breaking the law" that Christians got thrown to the lions in Rome, and in ancient Babylon, and beaten to a pulp by the KGB (such as for meeting with other Christians to worship and pray), and great men were put to the stake by Rome for translating the Bible. Yet you go on with this craziness about how it's not about obeying God?

I wonder when the English language is just going to dissolve into total word salad under the Left?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:47 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 1484 (802101)
03-12-2017 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
03-12-2017 8:47 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
I see, so I'm NOT allowed to have my beliefs, I have to have yours.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:47 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:54 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 1484 (802104)
03-12-2017 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by PaulK
03-12-2017 8:52 AM


Re: False equivalence
No prosecutions? The Oregon bakery had to close their doors and would have had to pay a huge fine except some nice gays stepped in and took care of the fine.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 8:52 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Coragyps, posted 03-12-2017 9:06 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 19 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 9:09 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 1484 (802109)
03-12-2017 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-12-2017 8:54 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
Why do you keep asserting the obvious? Not free for this that and the other, yes we know that.; It's because the law says we are not free to follow our Christian conscience that we expect to be punished. What else is new?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 8:54 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:16 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 1484 (802110)
03-12-2017 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
03-12-2017 9:10 AM


Re: False equivalence
Good for them. They were also implying that they know the law is an ass.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:10 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:14 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 1484 (802112)
03-12-2017 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by PaulK
03-12-2017 9:09 AM


Re: False equivalence
We KNOW it's illegal. Why is this being repeated? We know it is illegal and we know if we follow our conscience we will be punished. Good grief, how many times do you have to repeat this?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 9:09 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2017 9:28 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 1484 (802114)
03-12-2017 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
03-12-2017 9:14 AM


Re: False equivalence
The reality is we get punished for obeying God.

I looked up the Colorado case too: Masterpiece cakeshop. They were sued for denying a gay couple a wedding cake and the court decided for the gay couple and they took it to the supreme court. Last news is that the owner of the business decided not to make any more wedding cakes. Is that punishment enough for you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:14 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:22 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 1484 (802115)
03-12-2017 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
03-12-2017 9:16 AM


Re: Gay marriage is not an attack on Christianity or on anything else.
The law says absolutely nothing about your beliefs.

Nor did the law requiring worship of Caesar, nor the one requiring worship of Nebuchadnezzar, nor the law forbidding the translation of Bibles. Why do you keep going on in this utterly idiotic way?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:16 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 1484 (802119)
03-12-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
03-12-2017 9:22 AM


Re: False equivalence
Again, apparently we are not allowed to have our own beliefs, we are required to have yours.

Anyway, I looked up another of the businesses that refused to cater to a gay wedding, the florist in Washington, Baronelle Stutzman. She lost her case too of course and was fined $1000. I don't know where things stand at the moment.

The photograph in New Mexico also lost her case: http://www.christianitytoday.com/...refuse-gay-weddings.html

I think there was another bakery in the same situation. Maybe I can find it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:37 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32716
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 1484 (802121)
03-12-2017 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
03-12-2017 9:37 AM


Logical La La Land
Logically you live in la-la land like most Leftists, and the irrationality and illogic of it all are maybe the hardest part of being attacked by anti-Christian laws. The denial, the silly word twisting.

Anyway, although there's lots of news out there that might be pursued on this thread, I can't find the other business I was looking for, which I think was also a bakery.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:37 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 03-12-2017 9:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
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