Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity

ALL I NEED TO KNOW IS ABOUT THE ONE LAW I'M TALKING ABOUT, NOT ABOUT ALL THE LAWS YOU BROUGHT UP. ALL THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. AGAIN, SO WHAT? YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE SOME KIND OF MENTAL DISORDER, OR
FAILURE OF LOGIC. Or it's just the usual Leftist delight in twisting anything a conservative says. Probably all of the above.IT IS EASY TO SHOW THAT GAY MARRIAGE IS FORBIDDEN BY GOD and that's all I'm talking about. Your comparison is just the usual evil Leftist smear tactic.AND AGAIN, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT "SEXUAL ORIENTATION" WHICH MISSES THE POINT WHICH IS THAT IT'S GAY MARRIAGE THAT IS THE POINT.Idiot.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This thread is about one issue, a very simple issua, although the Leftists here not only twist things but lie about me. There is no civility from Leftists at all. And lies do make their mark because people believe them.I'll restate the issue: The law legalizing gay marriage contradicts God's ordinance of marriage. So whenever there is a conflict between the law and a Christian's conscience about the ordinance of marriage the Christian must refuse to obey the law. Since it is a law, that means the Christian will be punished in some way. That's it. That's the issue. Everything else is distraction, distortion, guilt by invented association, slimy insinuations and accusations. SO typically Leftist.Everything else on this thread will be lies and character assassination because I'm leaving it.

You and others keep talking about "baking a cake" as if this is about a small affair of the sort you'd make in your own kitchen. This is just a reminder that a wedding cake is a special custom creation that takes days to put together and costs a LOT of money. Even the most minimal wedding cake is a big deal. The baker puts a LOT into such a creation. It's a huge investment of the baker's personality and time. http://i.weddingomania.com/...e-wedding-cakes-13-500x689.jpg Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I've said many times that any cake that isn't specifically for a wedding is no problem, any cake out of the display case or any custom cake for a birthday party or other celebration. It becomes a problem when the baker is personally engaged in doing something for a gay wedding. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The baker has to actually make the cake that's in the catalogue.

I guess I'm not getting your point. If someone is going to get involved in such a big costly deal as a wedding cake it would be scheduled for a particular wedding and the bakery would deliver it and set it up. I don't think you could just order a cake without giving all that information, if that's what you are saying.

Nothing I've said justifies such a remark. The truth is that you and others are out to get US, not Christians out to get gays.Gays have been served by Christian businesses regularly without a problem, until this law was passed that involve special orders that entail personal involvement for a gay wedding, which is strictly forbidden because of God's ordinance of marriage as for one man and one woman.But believe what you want. The country has already gone to Hell, might as well take it to the max and lie about Christians too.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The cake has to be personally constructed. That involves the baker personally in the gay wedding. So no.

No.It's the personal involvement that is the problem. The Christian baker can't PERSONALLY engage in something that serves a gay wedding. The florist can't personally arrange the flowers for a gay wedding, the photographer can't personally take pictures for a gay wedding. It's the personal involvement that compromises the Christian in a wedding that violates God's ordinance.Order a Danish and coffee, no problem, buy a chocolate cake out of the case, no problem, order a custom birthday cake, no problem. Personally constructed wedding cake, no. Buy hundreds of flowers, no9 problem, ask the floriest to arrange them for a gay wedding, no. Hire the photograph to take pictures at a birthday party, no problem. Just not a gay wedding.

The sooner the better. I'm so tired of being here. /
It isn't loving anybody to oppose God's laws, but you don't say HOW he loved gays and perhaps you don't even know what he would have thought about a law violating God's Law. But Methodists are a liberal denomination these days so maybe he wouldn't object to such a law. I would consider that NOT loving anybody because gays like everybody else need to be saved and you can't save people if they don't know what offends God. You and everybody else here utterly misread everything I've been saying.
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You like so many understand absolutely nothing about this subject despite all my efforts. Oh well. The only hatreds here are on your side, not mine. The Left reeks, drips, drools hatred and projects it onto their opponents.//
We're the ones who suffer from this law and having to disobey it, funny how that gets ignored.
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Thank yhou for admitting it. And again, the sooner the better. May I request a bullet to the brain?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church, so there's nothing to worry about on that score. Maybe we'll get raptured off the planet though, that would be lovely. You won't miss us of course, but i'll feel bad about friends and family I'll leave behind.The culture has already regressed to paganism and it will probably get much worse. Have you noticed the active witchcraft out there? The plans to bring down Trump by witchcraft? I suppose you think it's all a big joke? But witchcraft is Satan's main religion, it's about demons doing bad things to people. Christians will be praying against it but who knows if we'll prevail. The witches could succeed. I guess you'll cheer when that happens.Won't last long though, AZ. You've got everything upside down and backwards and I actually feel sorry for you. I hope you'll wake up from it. And others here too. All the gay people too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Of course this thread isn't about Christians dictating anything, it's about a law dictating to Christians, forcing us by law to accept something that is against our Christian conscience, forcing us to refuse to obey it and therefore be punished.But of course I also have to remind you that we're talking about what God commands, not Christians, so your whole understanding of these things is wrong.Most people already share your views of a rational utopian world. I did too up until my mid-forties. Turns out it's false. Sounds good I guess, but it's false.I feel sorry for gays, I really do. They didn't ask for their situation and all they want is the right to live as they choose. Seems simple, but things are a lot more complicated than that and what you are asking for would hurt them, not help them. I'm sure you think if you can shut us up everything will be fine.I've never fully believed in the "pre-tribulation Rapture" but find myself hoping against hope it's going to happen soon. Then maybe you could see if things are really fine or not. I don't want anybody, even you, to go through "the tribulation," but I have a feeling it's the only way some people have a chance of being saved. You, lots of others here, lots of gay people, my own family.

Oh but I do. The thing is I don't know God's will in this case. I was amazed that He allowed us any reprieve at all from the political horrors of the last few decades and particularly the last eight years, all the crooks and liars out to destroy the country. I thought we were going to get an escalation of same with HC. I figured we deserved it, more of God's judgment. So I was amazed and relieved along with most conservatives that we got the conservative guy who loves America and wants to save us from all that.At the same time I knew we still had to be under God's judgment unless something drastic changed. I've been waiting to see how far Trump can go with his plans, or if he'll be destroyed by the evil powers that have been on his case since he was elected, illegally, against all American principles and traditions.It's still not completely clear, but I'm not at all surprised to hear there are witches -- in Hollywood and elsewhere -- dispatching their demon friends to do him in.Sure I agree with Calvin, but it's not so much about Trump's sins as the nation's sins -- and besides, the idea is screamingly ridiculous that Trump is even a tenth the sinner Hillary is --, but prayer is also part of God's plan, and the outcome is never known in advance.A temporary reprieve may be all that fits into the spiritual economy of the moment and we'll be going back to the full-blown horror show -- or maybe it will drag on a long time with the current horror show. Things are horrific enough anyway with the relentless arrogant disruptiveness of the Left. Time will tell of course.But this is of course off topic.

That's false and mean. The Christian conscience that the business people have acted on against the law legalizing same-sex marriage is totally born of obedience to God. Period. A believer who understands the situation as they do, and I do, HAS to obey God, God established marriage and that is that. There is no hate involved, it's about the law, not the people. And again, the Oregon bakers made a little cake for the couple they'd refused, expressing love toward them. The hate is all coming from you, blood-curdling hate. If Christians are put in the position of having to choose to obey God or a secular law, we obey God, and that is what legalizing gay marriage has done to Christians in businesses that cater weddings. "We should obey God rather than man" it says in Acts 5:19. Your not believing in God makes no difference to what we do. Of course the state can punish those who choose God and has done so already. Maybe you could get yourself elected to some post where you could help determine the punishment? It sounds like it would give you much delight. Torture? Would that appease your secular conscience? Secular society doesn't always make laws we can't obey. I'm sorry our disobedience is hurtful to some but that's the law's fault, not ours. Um, no. We're talking about a particular law that can put us in a difficult position, that's all. Your imagination is running away with you. Well, it IS an oppression of Christianity to devise a law that forces us to make the choice this one does. I don't know why you keep arguing about it either since from the beginning it's been clear that we know and expect that disobedience to this law will get us punished. Isn't that enough for you? (Obviously not, you have to make sure we are verbally raked over the coals. At what point will the raking bre enough for you?) Again, isn't that what I've been saying from the beginning of this thread? It's the oddest thing. What I've said from the beginning keeps being said back to me as if I hadn't said it. Strange indeed.You need to wear a napkin around your neck by the way, to keep the viper's venom from staining your shirt. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It isn't about sin, it's about the definition of marriage. Some Christians may feel it necessary to refuse service to a wedding of a divorced person, or refuse to decorate a cake for "Gay Pride" as somebody else brought up, or for "Wicca Week" or "Satan Day" or whatever, but this thread is about a particular law that puts Christians in the position of having to choose between God's law and human law. Again, there may be lots of situations that put a Christian's conscience to the test, but a law legalizing same-sex marriage is guaranteed to do that.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.