Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity

Very, happy to be challenged - that's why we hang out here, just not willing to discuss it with someone who can't control his behaviour.Cool the accusations and aggression, stop creating straw men, try to understand what I'm saying. You never know I just might have a point worthy of consideration. Or not. But you'll never know if you're forever fighting.

You're objecting to something that I didn't say? Something you'd have preferred me to say because you have a boilerplate response? Wtf? I think it's a possibility that people will become irritated if there is continued pursuance of trivial complaints, yes. And yes, I do consider refusals to supply cakes from religious idiots trivial. And yes, I know that these things might seem important to the individuals involved. But allowing Christians to martyr themselves over and over publicly may not be smart.

Correct, so drop all the other nonsense that you introduced. I'm fine with you being fine with it. I'm merely pointing out that it might turn out to be counterproductive. I understand why you may want to extract revenge for past harm and with the hope of warding off future harm. I'm merely pointing out that to do so by reacting to every slight of closed-minded bigots might turn out to be counterproductive. Please don't corrupt my argument. A cake is trivia and always will be. I understand that it stands for more than the cake, and I understand that you feel that you've suffered for being what you are, and it's fun to mess with bigots - maybe once.
But if there are continued national outrages caused by minor issues it may become counterproductive. Because the main battle has been won. You can ride above the slights of the bigots and just ignore them when the issue is trivial. Like a bloody cake. You can't change them, you can only change society generally over time by simply being everyday citizens that don't reach for a law suit every time they feel offended by an idiot. They apply to everybody. We all get annoyed by the behaviour of others. Some things are worth the effort of doing something about it, somethings aren't. As the the lawyers say, 'having principles can be expensive.' Sometimes it's better to just shrug it off.I'm not attempting to tell individuals what to do - if you want to kick back at the bigots now that you can, go ahead, it makes for great reading. Everytime it happens I think great, bagged another bastard. But at some point it's going to look like you've got a real chip on your collective shoulders - deserved or otherwise.If you want to win the hearts of the nation you've just conquered on the battlefield, it's generally thought a bad idea to bayonet their wounded. The word magnanimous springs to mind.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Yes, it looks like there's a real battle to be fought and I'm pretty sure Trump is not going to be on the side of the LBGT community. He's not beyond starting his own verbal pogrom to appeal to the fundamentalist religions and the bigoted.

It's still only a cake Faith. There's no avoiding the fact that it's just a bloody cake.Just out of deranged interest, would a baker bigot still refuse to supply the cake to a gay guy if there was nothing on it to suggest it was going to be for a gay wedding?Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

This cake is for a gay wedding. But it's just a cake out of the catalogue.

Well yes, that's what I said. It's a wedding cake straight out of their catalogue but it's going to be used at a gay wedding. Bake/no bake?

You're not. So the baker knows that his cake is going to a gay wedding. But it's a bog-standard cake straight out of the catelogue. Does he still sell i?

This is getting even weirder. Every wedding cake is personally constructed. The personal constructor is called a baker. The gay customer comes into the shop, says he's after a cake for a gay wedding, points to the picture of the cake he wants, holds out the cash.Can your baker provide the cake?

I'm saying the same things, you're saying the same things. Time to give it a rest.

Mad as a box of frogs. Sheesh......

Yes buying a cake is still trivial. You have a choice, it can be symbolic of the prejudice, discrimination and suffering inflicted on a minority, or it can be simply buying a cake. No, one should shrug it off and buy the cake next door from someone that isn't a bigoted idiot. Better, tell them to go fuck themselves and then go next door and spend twice the money on a massive cake with an inverted crucifix stuffed into the top. Well now, what are we supposed to do with that? This is a real problem, you're talking to people who are on your side. People who hate these bigots at least as much as you do. 'Feel me suffer or fuck off'. Not a chance.Speaking for myself here, I've lived next door to two gays in very long-term relationship for 20 years, I consider them close friends and went to their marriage, I work with a gay guy everyday who's the funniest bloke I've ever met and my niece and god-daughter (sic) now has a male name. I chose to live in a city with the highest proportion of LGBT people in Europe - it's made for a fabulously diverse place with a unique culture. I don't recognise the anguish and suffering that you project as the norm. What I see is a confident and outgoing community that's making a difference in the world and I'm grateful for it. Just for a laugh, my local baker is a gay. Tragically, he's not a terribly good one.So maybe this is unusual, but it's proof that gays needn't feel like victims anymore.What I hear from you has a terrible resemblance to Faith's embittered martydom speeches. But her kind of primitive prejudice is an anachronism - maybe time to join the rest of us, ignore the shits and get on with a normal life?

I don't know much/anything about what happens in individual US states - except by reputation. It sounds like some parts of the South would be an impossible place for gays to live in.I remember being asked by a religious idiot in Colarado what church I went to. A question impossible to imagine being a topic of conversation in the UK - in the circles I turn in at least. I laughed and said I was a born again pagan, she looked terrified and backed away.I accept that some parts of your country have not developed the liberal consciousness of others so there's going to be a lot of very damaged lives at the extremes. There are a lot of individual battles to be won and people will take the routes that suit them. But just like some in the LGBT communities dislike being told how to do it by straights, some straights dislike being told how we should feel about what they do or how they go about it.There's a bit of 'if you're not on side with everything we do, you're part of the problem'. That's an illiberal and error ridden position.

You may be right, perhaps I'm not on your side. But I *am* on the side of LGBT folk that can see beyond their own prejudice. You've got some way to go. I wish you luck with it, but if what you say is true, you need to work out who your friends are because it sounds like you need some.

I think your emotions have got the better of you.