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EvC Forum Science Forums Geology and the Great Flood

# The TRVE history of the Flood...

Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
PaulK
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 Message 61 of 85 (804098) 04-07-2017 7:31 AM Reply to: Message 58 by Davidjay04-07-2017 12:36 AM

Re: FIRST ABSOLUTE EXACT PROOF
While there is not even an attempt to offer evidence for the Flood here never mind anything that deserves to be called an "exact proof" I thought I would correct the numbers since they seem to be important to you.
First, the data given lacks the precision to provide an exact year.
Second, making reasonable assumptions, the time given by the text is in the range of 1655-1662 years. Possibly longer - the predominance of multiples of 5 suggests that the figures may be even less precise than I assumed, increasing the uncertainty.
Third, the Septuagint and Samaritan texts offer quite different ages so the above result only applies to the Masoretic text.
No need to thank me, this is very simple mathematics.

 This message is a reply to: Message 58 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 12:36 AM Davidjay has not replied

herebedragons
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 Message 62 of 85 (804100) 04-07-2017 8:09 AM Reply to: Message 58 by Davidjay04-07-2017 12:36 AM

Re: FIRST ABSOLUTE EXACT PROOF
None of that is "proof" of the date, it is calculating the number you need to prove. And as PaulK pointed out, you also need to establish that your particular data set is the correct one. Creationists propose a great range of dates for the creation and the flood, ranging up to 10,000 years. How is your calculation the right one.
Ok, so you have established the date that you wish to prove to be the right one, now show that it is right using scientific methodology.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

 This message is a reply to: Message 58 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 12:36 AM Davidjay has not replied

Davidjay
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 Message 63 of 85 (804126) 04-07-2017 10:02 AM Reply to: Message 60 by Adminnemooseus04-07-2017 1:11 AM

Re: Evidence given, in more exact steps, as proposed
Admin, this is a mathematical enlightment that Coyote agreed with and to which you agreed with.
And as I clearly stated, I will be giving exact proofs STEP BY STEP to show the exact corelations and undeniable connections.
The TOPIC is mathematical proof of the timing and true place in History of the Great Worldwide Flood. This I am doing, unless the outcome is too devastating to some.
Research and teaching is precept upon precept, it isnt a shallow one minute post.

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

 This message is a reply to: Message 60 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-07-2017 1:11 AM Adminnemooseus has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 64 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:04 AM Davidjay has replied Message 84 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-08-2017 1:12 AM Davidjay has not replied

Davidjay
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 Message 64 of 85 (804127) 04-07-2017 10:04 AM Reply to: Message 63 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:02 AM

Re: Answering Questions before STEP 2
I am responsible to answer only my own research rather than others. Even though in this simple addition of numbers, numerous, and I do say numerous people throughout the ages have just added up the years and came to the exact same number. Its Grade Six math
The data given is in years, math teaches us that we can add up years together to get a TOTAL in years.
Herein we are not giving all the geological reasons for the flood, but the mathematical exact dating of the Flood, from different exact angles, all agreeing together exactly when the Flood occured.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

 This message is a reply to: Message 63 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:02 AM Davidjay has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 65 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:14 AM Davidjay has replied

Davidjay
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 Message 65 of 85 (804130) 04-07-2017 10:14 AM Reply to: Message 64 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:04 AM

Re:Step 1 Confirmed
The addition of years in Genesis from each generation to Noah and the Floods descent and ascent (waters from below) is CONFIRMED.
As no one above could or can differ with the exact number of years Genesis gives. The Math is correct, the total addition product is 1656 according to Biblical references exactly.
If it was wrong, the above math types would have stated such. But the MATH IS CORRECT.
We shall now go on to STEP 2, and relate this exactly the dating unit and units of time that the Designer created right from the BEGINNING in GENESIS. It deals with seconds and minutes and hours in a day, corelating to the spin of the Earth around its designed axis..... and the revolution of the Earth around the Sun. This being exact years, as we added in HERE.
So lets see if this 1656 years of Genesis has an exact match in time.
Hmmm it will start to make you think seconds and minutes and hours might not be random as evolutionists hoped for. But lets do the research and do the math and see if there is a connection and correlation.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

 This message is a reply to: Message 64 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:04 AM Davidjay has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 66 by Coyote, posted 04-07-2017 10:20 AM Davidjay has not replied Message 67 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:22 AM Davidjay has not replied Message 68 by PaulK, posted 04-07-2017 10:33 AM Davidjay has not replied

Coyote
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 Message 66 of 85 (804133) 04-07-2017 10:20 AM Reply to: Message 65 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:14 AM

Step 1--Nonsense
The Math is correct...
But the conclusion is nonsense.
You can model math 'til the cows come home and it won't magically poof a flood into existence when all the real-world evidence shows such a flood at your "exact" date never happened.
You might as well be "proving" mathematically that bumblebees can't fly.
You have yet to address the evidence I provided way back toward the beginning of the thread.
To summarize: I have radiocarbon dates from my excavations falling in the years right after the purported flood, and I have mtDNA evidence of the same haplotype from before to after the date you give for the flood. Neither of these would be possible if there was a global flood.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

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Davidjay
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 Message 67 of 85 (804134) 04-07-2017 10:22 AM Reply to: Message 65 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:14 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
STEP 2
OneDayTilNoahsFlood
Simple Cut and Paste.... as why should I rewrite what is already exact... so check out the numbers of time, and creation and see if they add up.... no manipulation HERE no missing links or quesstimation of billions and trillions of supposed years, just down to Earth units of time....
Do the Math, dont be lazy, dont be afraid, be honest scientists..
""It's easily established that the world was created in 4004 B.C. This done simply by going through the geneologies dated years of
Genesis. ( SEE ForeFathers Graphic ) And this confirmed in my recent searches via http://www.greatdreams.com/432.htm Because
they also realised through simple subtraction that the Flood of Noah took place in 2348 B.C.
Therefore 4004-2348 gives 1656 years. And as mentioned on this afore mentioned site or by simply doing the math... there was
86,400 weeks from the 'Creation week' in days to the recreation of the Earth after the Flood. For do notice that Noah stepped out of
the Ark on the first day of the first Month exactly.
Genesis 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year,
in the first month, (Nissan) the first day of the month, the waters were
dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark,
and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry
For at that time of the solar year, it was equal day and night as mentioned in Genesis 1. This meaning the month Nissan was at the
equinox in April 21st. Hence equal time of darkness first, and then the light, as Jewish days are from sundown to sunset. Time wise
this exactly means 43,200 seconds of darkness, before the light or Sun (SON) rises at the dawn of the first day for 43,200 seconds of
daylight. 12 hours times 60 minutes/hour times 60 seconds/minute= 43,200 seconds per daytime and the same for the night. This
meaning that as we know there are 86,400 seconds in a day.
Therefore the Lord literally gave the Earth and its inhabitants ONE Day of 86,400 seconds before He send and recreated its surfaces
via His worldwide flood. This with each second equaling a week of seven days. Yet this type of ratio-ing timing mechanism was and
is hardly a novel idea as the Lord also had a similiar timing mechanism for Daniel the prophet. And yet with Daniel the Lord made
one week represent 7 years. ( Consider Daniel 9.)
(end of segment.....)
IHMS
(IN HIs Mathematical Service)
David

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

 This message is a reply to: Message 65 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:14 AM Davidjay has not replied

 Replies to this message: Message 69 by Tangle, posted 04-07-2017 10:34 AM Davidjay has replied Message 71 by herebedragons, posted 04-07-2017 11:29 AM Davidjay has not replied Message 73 by PaulK, posted 04-07-2017 11:50 AM Davidjay has not replied

PaulK
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 (1)
 Message 68 of 85 (804140) 04-07-2017 10:33 AM Reply to: Message 65 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:14 AM

Re: Re:Step 1 Confirmed
quote:
As no one above could or can differ with the exact number of years Genesis gives. The Math is correct, the total addition product is 1656 according to Biblical references exactly.
If it was wrong, the above math types would have stated such. But the MATH IS CORRECT.
I did state as such Message 61
And I note that you originally claimed it was 1646 years.
How many years until the Flood ..... 1646 years. Thats your product RIGHT ? RIGHT ? The genesis or Biblical history says that exactly 1646 years after Creation there was a worldwide flood.
Now dont throw a fit and start writing the words, myth, lies etc etc...
Mathematically you cant deny the addition of these years. Its easy, its a basic, a cornerstone, its EXACT. Its not billions and trillions of years, changed with every new theory of a new theory of an old theory. Its a standard.
The number of years is 1646.
So, if your "correct" math gave 1646 years why are you now saying it is 1656 years.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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Tangle
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 Message 69 of 85 (804141) 04-07-2017 10:34 AM Reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:22 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
Davidjay, I really dont care - and I doubt anyone else here does either - what date you manufacture from you book of tales - it really doesn't matter. Just tell us the date of the flood as you see it and we can go on from there to show you that it didn't actually happen.
You see this is quite easy for us, because there's no evidence for a global flood at any point in the earth's history, so just confirm your date and we can move on to evidence.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

 This message is a reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:22 AM Davidjay has replied

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jar
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 Message 70 of 85 (804144) 04-07-2017 10:41 AM Reply to: Message 69 by Tangle04-07-2017 10:34 AM

more proof the Bible is not inerrant.
Tangle writes:
You see this is quite easy for us, because there's no evidence for a global flood at any point in the earth's history, so just confirm your date and we can move on to evidence.
At least not during the time humans existed.
But wait; there's more.
The Bible has two mutually exclusive flood stories so either there were two floods or one of the flood stories is false.
Just yet more proof that the Bible is the product of man and not inerrant.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 394 days)
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From: Michigan
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 (1)
 Message 71 of 85 (804151) 04-07-2017 11:29 AM Reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:22 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
Therefore 4004-2348 gives 1656 years. And as mentioned on this afore mentioned site or by simply doing the math... there was
86,400 weeks from the 'Creation week' in days to the recreation of the Earth after the Flood. For do notice that Noah stepped out of
the Ark on the first day of the first Month exactly.
Some confusion here, so why don't you show your maths.
I figure there is 52 weeks in a year times 1656 years equals 1656 x 52 = 86,112 not 86,400.
Also elsewhere you claim the correct number of years from creation to the flood is 1646 years, so this would be 85,592 weeks, not 86,400.
In order for the number of weeks to be 86,400, the number of years from creation to flood would need to be 1661.53846, not even a whole number, which you point out that Noah left the ark on the first day of the first month exactly, by which I assume you mean that the time of creation to Noah leaving the ark was a exact number of years, not fractional.
Do the Math, dont be lazy, dont be afraid, be honest scientists..
However, you do realize that adding and multiplying numbers alone is not science, don't you?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

 This message is a reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:22 AM Davidjay has not replied

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jar
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 Message 72 of 85 (804152) 04-07-2017 11:39 AM Reply to: Message 71 by herebedragons04-07-2017 11:29 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
hbd writes:
However, you do realize that adding and multiplying numbers alone is not science, don't you?
How about the science of numerology and the only true science of the mind, phrenology, and the science of humors like blood, phlegm, black and yellow bile?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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PaulK
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 Message 73 of 85 (804154) 04-07-2017 11:50 AM Reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay04-07-2017 10:22 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
quote:
For at that time of the solar year, it was equal day and night as mentioned in Genesis 1. This meaning the month Nissan was at the
equinox in April 21st
Which was it ? April 21st or the Equinox ? And how would you know ?
quote:
Therefore the Lord literally gave the Earth and its inhabitants ONE Day of 86,400 seconds before He send and recreated its surfaces
via His worldwide flood.
While such a figure is within the range of possible dates it is hardly established as correct. And even if it were it would only be a feature of the story.
So, still no evidence of the Flood at all.

 This message is a reply to: Message 67 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 10:22 AM Davidjay has not replied

caffeine
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 (1)
 Message 74 of 85 (804165) 04-07-2017 1:53 PM Reply to: Message 71 by herebedragons04-07-2017 11:29 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
I figure there is 52 weeks in a year times 1656 years equals 1656 x 52 = 86,112 not 86,400.
Also elsewhere you claim the correct number of years from creation to the flood is 1646 years, so this would be 85,592 weeks, not 86,400.
There aren't exactly 52 weeks in a year, though, as 365 is not a multiple of 7. Counting the number of days in 1,656 years (taking into account leap years) gives you 86,407 weeks plus a few extra days.
We see here how the errors introduced by rounding add up, which is the problem with trying to obtain an exact date by adding generations in the Bible. When we say that something lasted 130 years we don't mean that to be true to the second; this is rounded to a whole year. Adding up dozens of generations can compound these rounded errors - hence the seven year range pointed out by PaulK.
All in all this is big disappointment though. I wasn't expecting a good argument; but I wasn't expecting the requirement that we accept the literal truth of Genesis to be step one.

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Davidjay
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 Message 75 of 85 (804216) 04-07-2017 11:53 PM Reply to: Message 69 by Tangle04-07-2017 10:34 AM

Re: Re:Step 2 Corelating 1656 Years to Time Units
Tangle, Think Bro THINK.... have more than a ten second attention span.
Its now agreed that my math was correct !!! IE that Genesis Bible account with no missing links adds up exactly to 1656 years.
FIRST CONFIRMATION.
Now STEP 2, is easily confirmed mathematically that there was exactly 84, 400 weeks before Adam set forth on dry ground, this being exactly the number of seconds in a day. 86,400 seconds.
A creation week of exactly seven days, followed by the number of seconds in a day "weeks' until the Flood receeded, and there was recreation by Noah.
In a denying mind this means nothing, as it booggles the unthinking mind that a Creator could be so exact, and DESIGN HISTORY so exactly. At the very least it should make thinking people demand more proofs and want to search more mathematical so called coincidences of time in world HISTORY.
So again that is a given mathematically !!!
So the hint HERE is that seconds, are not a random measure, as the Creator spun the Earth around its axis, at a specific designed speed. Seconds can be trusted to be exact, just as it can be absolutely proven that distances corelate, and they also are not at random, neither of course is and are speeds.
Yikes the evolutionists who worship randomness and stright luck, have to run away screaming or deny deny deny, or stop discussions because their random worship falls apart. All things are designed, not just life, but inanimate life, as well as all the LAWS as well as distance, TIME (Prophecy and History) as well as SPEEDS (Lets discuss Light speed and why it is by design mathematically via the distances in the designed Solar System.
So lets move on to STEP 3 Confirmation before the Conclusion and wrap up even though there are a multiple of other connections I can give.
But already I and we are light years ahead of evolutionists because they have no math, no viable history just theory on theory.

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

 This message is a reply to: Message 69 by Tangle, posted 04-07-2017 10:34 AM Tangle has not replied

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