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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Posts: 4566
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8

Message 352 of 353 (861144)
08-18-2019 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by LamarkNewAge
08-18-2019 12:42 AM

Re: A suppressed report showing refugees brought financial benefits to the USA?
That immigrants, especially the undocumented ones, pay more into the system than they take out is old news.

We started discussing the actual financial impact of immigrants on the US in The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News) at the end of January 2019 starting around Message 721 -- you came into that topic much later on, like just a month ago.

Here's part of what I wrote in that message; follow the topic thread from there and also a bit of what had preceded it:

DWise1 writes:

We are not even into February and the cost of illegal immigration so far this year is $18,959,495,168. Cost Friday was $603,331,392.

One of the several schemes for how the Wall will be paid for is the claim that by eliminating illegal immigration we can take the money that illegal immigration is costing us and put that to building the Wall, make the Wall almost self-funding.

That ignores the tax revenues we get from illegal immigrants, from the taxes that they pay. While "independent contractor" illegals (eg, day laborers, home cleaners, gardeners) can operate on a cash only basis being paid directly by their customers, illegals who work for a company and receive a paycheck need to go through the motions, usually with fake IDs (like the ones that Trump's resorts got for their own illegals). Those illegals get payroll taxes (eg, FICA for Social Security and Medicare) and income tax withholding taken out of their pay. And since they don't have valid IDs, they cannot receive any Social Security nor Medicare benefits, nor (to my knowledge) can they file income taxes to get any refund. Plus all illegal immigrants pay the same day-to-day taxes that we all pay (eg, sales tax, gas tax, property taxes through their rent payments). It turns out that illegal workers pay more in taxes than they receive as benefits. The "cost of illegal immigration" turns out to be a net gain, not a liability -- http://www.ncsl.org/...te-reports-on-fiscal-immigration.aspx.

So even if we were to completely eliminate illegal immigration, we would end up losing money instead of gaining. And that's not even including the adverse effects of stores losing customers, landlords losing renters, and businesses losing employees.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-18-2019 12:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Posts: 4566
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8

Message 353 of 353 (861145)
08-18-2019 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Chiroptera
06-10-2019 11:54 AM

Re: Reprehensible treatment of immigrants needing medical care
I'll use your message to springboard off of to talk about the British concentration camps in the Boer War (c. 1900) which resulted in the deaths of 26,000 women and children.

I first heard about them in the recent British future-history mini-series on HBO, Years and Years. In that series ("20 minutes into the future", though more like up to 2030), the UK gets a Trumpian PM (though far more intelligent and eloquent) who implements a system of "erstwhiles"; ie, erstwhile facilities like military bases, hospitals, etc, that are converted into concentration camps for refugees.

In that show, the UK government's plan was to crowd as many refugees as possible into these camps, including those sick with yet another new bird flu, with no medical care, practically no sanitation, and meager food, and let nature take its course. In the show, PM Vivian Fox brought up the Boer War concentration camps as an example of how effectively such camps can eliminate undesirables, which as I said is the first that I had ever heard of those camps.

Now, aren't those the kinds of conditions that the US government is now creating in its own concentration camps?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Chiroptera, posted 06-10-2019 11:54 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

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