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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 6107
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.5


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Message 158 of 353 (838583)
08-24-2018 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
08-14-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Let me put it this way: I may decide I support some socialistic programs up to a point but I haven't worked it out yet, and the distinctions I'm making between socialism and public works and other necessary functions of government for the nation as a whole, still apply, and I still say we don't need any more socialists.

There is no distinction between Socialism and Public Works, because Public Works are run under a Socialist methodology. I think what you mean to say is that Socialism has its role in limited uses, such as public works programs, but is not advisable on a grand scale. I would agree. And I think most Socialists would actually agree. I mean, what is running Sweden's economy? It aren't the Socialist programs which, by the design of it, consumes wealth and cannot create wealth. It's private companies like IKEA, Skype, Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, etc that fund their social programs.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 08-14-2018 12:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 08-24-2018 12:11 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 167 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-25-2018 7:57 PM Hyroglyphx has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6107
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 270 of 353 (838902)
08-30-2018 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
08-24-2018 12:11 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
No. Public wqrks is a function of every responsible government, it is not socialism. No. Public works is for the nation itself, socialism takes from some to give to others.

Okay, lets follow the logic. Taxes are collected without your consent from the private sector in order to fund various public programs, like fire, police, public works, courts, libraries, public transportation, etc. How do you not understand that is, on the most basic level, socialism?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 08-24-2018 12:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 1:07 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6107
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 306 of 353 (839082)
09-03-2018 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Faith
08-30-2018 1:07 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
My definition is something like this: Taxes for running the government, public works, infrastructure, etc, are like a fee we pay for those services. Welfare, on the other hand, goes to individuals who perform no services and earn none of it. That's socialism.

Welfare is just one form or aspect of socialism. Socialism is an economic principle, not merely "people getting free stuff." Obviously the Free-Rider argument is one of many unflattering things about Socialism, but it isn't consigned only to that limited view. A system of taxation against private capital in order to fund public programs is 100% socialist. The military is socialist. Public libraries are socialist. Welfare is socialist. Police departments are socialist. Fire departments are socialist. Medicare, Social Security, etc... all run by Socialist principles.

So, again, perhaps your argument isn't that socialism is in and of itself bad, but when expanded too far it can be problematic... which I would of course agree with.

The idea is that you pay a nominal fee in order to use services. The problem is what happens when some people don't pay in to the services and not only use the services they didn't pay in to, but use the services far in excess than the people who actually did pay for the services? Therein lies the fundamental problem with a system that only uses socialism.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 1:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 308 by Faith, posted 09-03-2018 1:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
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