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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
Taq
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Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 30 of 353 (837827)
08-09-2018 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

I'm for bias and bigotry if it means excluding criminals, jihadists and leftists/communists/ and people who poop on sidewalks..

If that is the case, then there wouldn't be a President Donald Trump. The first Trump to immigrate to the US (Frederick Trump) started a restaurant that included "female companionship", otherwise known as prostitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump


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 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 46 of 353 (837886)
08-10-2018 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
08-09-2018 11:23 PM


Re: Trump's Parents-in-Law Use Chain Migration Which He Hates
Faith writes:

Asians in general come from cultures that value work and personal social responsibility, in other words good candidates for citizenship.

That's not racist at all.

[/sarcasm]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 11:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 08-10-2018 5:41 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 47 of 353 (837887)
08-10-2018 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
08-10-2018 6:38 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

We don't need more socialists. Isn't that a clear enough idea?

The vast majority of native born Americans are socialists. There is wide support for public education, Social Security, Medicare, and other socialist programs.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-10-2018 6:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 123 of 353 (838074)
08-13-2018 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
08-10-2018 5:41 PM


Re: Trump's Parents-in-Law Use Chain Migration Which He Hates
Faith writes:

Oh well. It's about culture, not race, but there is of course always enough overlap to confuse the poor leftists.

You are insinuating that other cultures (cultures with dark skinned people?) are lazy.


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 Message 49 by Faith, posted 08-10-2018 5:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 124 of 353 (838075)
08-13-2018 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
08-10-2018 6:45 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

Fraid I'm not. There are hybrid forms of socialism that are less totalitarian but the tendency of socialism is always toward totalitarian oppression in the hands of government.

Again, there is widespread support for socialist programs in the US, even among Republicans. If Republicans campaigned on a platform of doing away with Medicare and public education they would lose a lot of elections.

But as John Adams and others of the Founders said in various ways, our system of government can only work well for a religious and moral people, "it is wholly inadequate for the governing of any other." Well, we've been losing our character as a "religious and moral people" for quite some time now, well beyond the point where such freedoms can be safely granted and the corporate federation still hold together, so we've become ripe for totalitarian oppression, of which socialism is a form.

I will take non-religious and moral over religious and immoral any day.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 08-10-2018 6:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 08-13-2018 7:14 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 125 of 353 (838076)
08-13-2018 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
08-13-2018 4:35 AM


Re: Immigration is OK IF respect is given to those born here.
Faith writes:

I agree. Open Borders gives no respect whatever to American citizens.

That quaking you feel is millions of Native Americans rolling their eyes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 08-13-2018 4:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 08-13-2018 7:18 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 146 of 353 (838138)
08-14-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Faith
08-13-2018 8:39 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

No, socialism redistributes wealth, taking from some to give to others. Even where it seems to be designed to benefit all it takes from the richer to give to the poorer. That is not the case with public works.

How would a socialist health care system be any different than public schools or public works?


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 Message 133 by Faith, posted 08-13-2018 8:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 147 of 353 (838139)
08-14-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
08-14-2018 11:58 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

The RIGHT use of taxation is for supporting government itself and public works, not socialistic programs.

Public works are socialist programs. They are programs funded by the government through the use of tax money, the very definition of socialism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 08-14-2018 11:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 148 of 353 (838141)
08-14-2018 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
08-14-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

Let me put it this way: I may decide I support some socialistic programs up to a point but I haven't worked it out yet, and the distinctions I'm making between socialism and public works and other necessary functions of government for the nation as a whole, still apply, and I still say we don't need any more socialists.

If you think public works, public schools, and Medicare are good ideas, then you are a socialist. There's nothing wrong with that. I think we ALL agree that socialism should be limited to the areas where it actually works. We don't differ on if we should have socialism, only how much socialism we should have.

This is why we roll our eyes when we hear conservatives using "socialism" as a slur because almost all conservatives are socialists of one degree or another. This is why the Tea Party movement supported Medicare and Social Security which are socialist programs, even though they try to bad mouth socialists at the same time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 08-14-2018 12:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 150 of 353 (838143)
08-14-2018 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
08-13-2018 7:18 PM


Re: Immigration is OK IF respect is given to those born here.
Faith writes:

So you're all for giving the continent back to the Indians? Or turning it over to Mexico?

I am all for pointing out the hypocrisy of immigrants who are against immigration. The US had open borders for centuries, even up to the late 1800's. Ever heard of Ellis Island? You are more than likely the descendant of many people who entered the US across open borders. You would likely not exist if the US had the type of closed border that you are calling for, nor would the wonderful country we see today exist if we had the type of closed borders you want.

All I am asking for is a bit of awareness of how your family got here.


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 Message 127 by Faith, posted 08-13-2018 7:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 154 of 353 (838273)
08-17-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
08-17-2018 10:33 AM


Re: Conservative Cal Thomas (on a conservative site townhall.com) said this:
Faith writes:

Public works seems to me to be clearly distinguishable from socialism: they don't benefit individuals selectively.

Nowhere in the definition of socialism does it say that programs must benefit some groups over others.

But I certainly haven't denied that we already have many forms of socialism, I might even support some of it, I just don't want any more thank you very much and would like to see reasonable methods for reducing what we've got.

Do you have a reason for not supporting universal single payer health insurance that is paid for in part by tax money?


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 Message 153 by Faith, posted 08-17-2018 10:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(5)
Message 157 of 353 (838491)
08-22-2018 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Chiroptera
08-18-2018 9:55 AM


Re: Paul Krugman on Danish "socialism"
Chiroptera writes:

Seeing how people have been arguing over what socialism is and whether it's good or bad, I thought Paul Krugman's column yesterday, discussing social democracy in Denmark, would be relevant.

There is no country with pure capitalism, pure socialism, or pure communism. All countries are a mix of different economic models.

Experience has taught us that capitalism works great for some markets, while it works horribly for others. We have also found that unregulated capitalism really doesn't work. Therefore, when you have markets where demand is extremely high then you may want to lean towards socialism. Health care is a perfect example because it is a product that you literally can not live without. A health care market based on profit is going to increase prices to maximize profits which will necessarily make health care too expensive for a lot of people. There is no single country with a for profit health care system that has less expensive health care than the average socialist health care program.

The myth that needs to go away is the idea that it is an either/or choice. Guess what? You can have both capitalism and socialism, and adjust that mix so that it benefits the citizens that are in that economy.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Chiroptera, posted 08-18-2018 9:55 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 288 of 353 (838932)
08-30-2018 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Faith
08-30-2018 4:07 PM


Re: Socialism
Faith writes:

Which would be fine if they didn't think other people should pay for it.

And most conservatives ALSO truly do believe in giving a helping hand to those in need, and they show it with their actual giving which is always a lot more than the Left gives.

You may want to read up on your history, especially the Great Depression and President Hoover. He adopted the same position you are taking, and the result was widespread homelessness and starvation. The guy who replaced him was FDR, and he brought in the New Deal which actually did solve the crisis of the Great Depression. The New Deal was socialism, and it worked.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 4:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 293 of 353 (838937)
08-30-2018 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
08-30-2018 4:53 PM


Faith writes:

So what is needed is a way to
take care of the poor, improve health care etc
stimulate the poor to get unpoor
while not killing the incentives to create wealth, as well as invention and generosity by the wealthy
and paying down the deficit.

Pretty much. I would put it more in terms of making sure jobs are supplying a living wage so that work is rewarded. We also need to look at history and realize that the economy worsens when wealth is concentrated into the hands of a few.

We should also realize that regulated capitalism works great in some markets, but not in all markets, especially those where supply and demand are way out of whack (e.g. health care).

It is also worth mentioning that generosity has never worked. The wealthy could donate the money to the US Government right now with the purpose of paying down the debt, but they aren't doing it. This is during a time of near record low tax rates on the wealthiest individuals. I'm not saying that we should punish the rich. Rather, people are rich because of not rich people working hard and participating in that economy. It's a bit like a quarterback claiming he won the game single-handedly while ignoring the contributions of the rest of the team.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 4:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 08-30-2018 5:24 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8429
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 315 of 353 (839709)
09-13-2018 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by Faith
09-11-2018 9:38 PM


Re: Immigration part of conspiracy to destroy Christian civlization
Faith writes:

Posted this on the Rapture thread but it also belongs here because it's about a conspiracy to destroy western Christian civilization by immigration.

That doesn't make much sense. The immigrants Republicans want to keep out the most are much more likely to be christian than the average American. 81% of Mexicans identify as Catholic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Faith, posted 09-11-2018 9:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by xongsmith, posted 09-13-2018 5:25 PM Taq has responded
 Message 317 by JonF, posted 09-13-2018 6:16 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
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