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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 599 of 1352 (807191)
05-01-2017 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 596 by Faith
05-01-2017 8:09 AM


Re: The Flood Explains the Cratonic Sequences. Basins are a joke
The question wasn't about how deep the sediments can get here or there, which certainly could get very deep in basins, but about how deep the water had to get across the entire continent in order to lay down one block or "package" of sedimentary layers after another, each to as much as 1000 feet deep.

Maybe you have answered this in the past, but I don't remember it; where did this block or "package" of sediment come from? When I look at exposures of some huge expanses of sedimentary layers I am struck by the massive volume of sand in the sandstone, limestone in the limestone, clay in the shale, and all the other sediments involved in these deposits.

This material had to be eroded from somewhere and it must have taken a lot of time. It takes time to turn mountains or rock layers into sand and mud and clay, etc. Surely you are not suggesting that this erosion was a result of just the rising stages of "the flood?"

How much sediment can stay suspended in water over time do you figure? When I try to visualize your "package" of sediment being suspended in water my imagination breaks down. The amount of water would have to be incredibly large, otherwise it would be like a mud-flow, thick and viscus.

One thing I notice, is when you pour sand into water it immediately sinks to the bottom. If you pour it in flowing water it sinks and then is washed along the bottom where there is a current.

It seems to me that physics and hydraulics would not allow the volume of your "package" of sediments to be suspended in your "flood" waters long enough to be deposited all at once in a block. And this doesn't even address the obvious problems that we do not see the obvious sorting by size and density that we should expect to see in flood deposits.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Faith, posted 05-01-2017 8:09 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(3)
Message 646 of 1352 (807620)
05-04-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 636 by edge
05-03-2017 5:42 PM


Re: The Flood Explains the Cratonic Sequences. Basins are a joke
Faith writes:

I've had enough. Communication with you is impossible. I'm not interested in your little snarky remarks or any of the rest of it. Far as I can see the Flood explains it all just fine.


And I'm not thrilled with you calling my arguments fraudulent. So we are even.

I just wanted to thank you for hanging in here, despite Faith's arrogant rudeness. Her lack of self-awareness is amazing and frustrating.

I have learned a lot and generally find your explanations quite comprehensible. This discussion of basins made things click onto place for me.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by edge, posted 05-03-2017 5:42 PM edge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 12:11 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 662 of 1352 (807644)
05-04-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Faith
05-04-2017 12:11 PM


Re: The Flood Explains the Cratonic Sequences. Basins are a joke
That's one of the rudest stupidest posts I've ever read.

But true, none the less.

Once again, I thank edge for his patience with your lack of self awareness, because I learned a lot from him.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 12:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 664 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 12:36 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 667 of 1352 (807650)
05-04-2017 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 664 by Faith
05-04-2017 12:36 PM


Re: The Flood Explains the Cratonic Sequences. Basins are a joke
Too bad what you learned is wrong.
abe: Welllll, maybe not so much wrong as contextually misplaced and therefore irrelevant.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 12:36 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 672 of 1352 (807675)
05-04-2017 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by Faith
05-04-2017 3:53 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
There is simply nothing about the appearance of ANY strata ANYWHERE that makes sense in terms of the Geological Time Scale.

I expect this would be true for you. For myself, it all make perfect sense and fits together incredibly well. And the geological explanation includes thousands of details that cannot be explained by the flood and that in fact, totally invalidate the flood as being responsible for any of the sedimentary layers.

Billions and hundreds of millions of years are recorded in the sedimentary layers of this planet and they provide wonderful clues of past environments and the organisms that lived there at those times.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 3:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 673 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 5:28 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 674 of 1352 (807683)
05-04-2017 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 673 by Faith
05-04-2017 5:28 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
The stories may fit together well but the physical reality of the strata is a glaring contradiction to the whole idea.

Well, except that the glaring contradiction is that the flood cannot explain 1) how we got strata made of extremely fine silt that would take a long tome to settle out covered with coarser material like sand the should have settled out earlier. These density anomalies occur over and over in the layer order. 2) The Navajo Sandstone represents a huge erg that covered much of the Colorado Plateau 190 million years ago. In places it is 2300 feet thick. Try explaining how this layer of sand dunes managed to get deposited in between two of your supposed "Flood" layers: the Carmel Formation and the Wingate sandstone. The crossbedding in the dunes can be seen many places where the Navajo is exposed. Animal tracks are preserved which is kind of hard to do in the middle of a flood. 3) Preserved dinosaur nests that are intact rather than washed away in the "flood".

These are just a few, since I know you will dismiss them all without a single logical explanation.

I'm drawing a blank, can't think of one.

We have listed an incredible number of these flies in your ointment or flaws in your argument in past discussions, so if you really cannot remember them maybe you should seek medical help.

Oh yeah, one more 4) The ordering of the fossils. You have never provided a credible argument for how the fossils came to be in the order they are found in. Science and specifically geology explain this perfectly.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 5:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 676 by Faith, posted 05-04-2017 10:46 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 775 of 1352 (808084)
05-08-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 774 by ringo
05-08-2017 11:50 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
And of course you'd still need a special mechanism to get rid of the water.

I'm imagining a giant wet-vac.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 774 by ringo, posted 05-08-2017 11:50 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 826 of 1352 (808309)
05-10-2017 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 825 by Faith
05-09-2017 11:54 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
And about mudslides, if you can figure out how it could rain for forty days and nights without producing prodigious mudslides, please enlighten.

Magic.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by Faith, posted 05-09-2017 11:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 839 of 1352 (808397)
05-10-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Faith
05-10-2017 2:02 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
The reality of the strata and fossils trumps all of that.

The reality of the strata and fossils trumps magic and your magic flood. That's all you have....magic.

Every thread where this discussion has gone on with you, that is what your argument depends on, magic, not evidence.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 2:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 868 of 1352 (808525)
05-11-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 863 by CRR
05-11-2017 7:06 AM


Re: Six "Flood" Arguments Creationists Can't Answer
Pollen fossils have been found in Precambrian strata although it was claimed that flowering plants don't occur in the fossil record until early in the Cretaceous era.

Can you document this?

Grass was not supposed to have evolved until millions of years after the end of the dinosaurs but traces of grass have been found in fossilized dinosaur coprolites (dung).

Can you document this?

Ducks, squirrels, platypus, beaver-like and badger-like creatures have all been found in ‘dinosaur-era’ rock layers along with bees, cockroaches, frogs and pine trees.

Can you document this?

And when I ask about documentation I mean publication in peer-reviewed scientific journals. These sorts of finds would cause a lot of excitement in paleontological circles as well as other scientific groups and would make the finders quite famous. I would think it would be written up in more general scientific publications like Scientific American, also.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 7:06 AM CRR has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 881 of 1352 (808627)
05-11-2017 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 880 by jar
05-11-2017 5:39 PM


Re: The Flood Explains NOTHING except that some people are gullible.
Reality says that the Biblical flood never happened.

Yeah, but what about magic? Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't magic.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 880 by jar, posted 05-11-2017 5:39 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 882 by jar, posted 05-11-2017 6:26 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1288 of 1352 (814786)
07-12-2017 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1287 by Pollux
07-12-2017 8:57 PM


Re: Strata (1)
Also remember the earliest geologists were creationists who went looking for evidence to support the Flood, and could not find it.

One of the funny things I have noticed is despite the creationist compulsion to list famous scientists who were creationists I don't remember ever seeing them list those early geologists as support for creationism. They seem to think that those lists lend some support for their argument, but the creationists who actually tried to find evidence of the flood and came to the conclusion based on the evidence that there was no flood are pointedly ignored. I wonder why?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1287 by Pollux, posted 07-12-2017 8:57 PM Pollux has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1290 by Pollux, posted 07-12-2017 11:32 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1341 of 1352 (814916)
07-13-2017 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1340 by Faith
07-13-2017 4:49 PM


Re: Strata (3)
It's been discussed to death over the last few years. You lost.

And yet, you have convinced none of us. I would hardly call that winning.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by Faith, posted 07-13-2017 4:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1342 by Faith, posted 07-13-2017 4:57 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
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