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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 852 of 1352 (808453)
05-10-2017 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by Faith
05-10-2017 7:25 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

I believe you sincerely believe what you post but you are sincerely wrong. The universe and earth are not young and Ellen G. White's visions after a 3 week coma is not how the flood of the Bible took place.

faith writes:

The Flood would certainly have killed a lot of sea creatures and buried them in limestone;

Just why do you think a lot of the sea creatures would have died during the flood?

What would have killed them?

There was no mention by God of any water creatures dying. Genesis 6:17 The air breathing critters and the flying critters were doomed to die unless they were in the ark. Maybe I am missing something here.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 7:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 854 by ringo, posted 05-10-2017 10:31 PM ICANT has taken no action
 Message 855 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 11:10 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 857 of 1352 (808460)
05-11-2017 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 834 by Faith
05-10-2017 1:48 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

This is really hilarious the way this obvious denial of reality is clung to by everybody here. The strata full of dead things are IN-YOUR-FACE EVIDENCE both for a worldwide Flood and against the preposterous idea that they represent time periods that then all collapsed down into stratified rock.

Yes the strata is full of the remains of dead things. The remains of dead vegetation has been retrieved in oil from on the surface to over 5 miles deep in the earth.

So are you proposing that all the strata in those 5 miles (holes have been drilled to 7 miles deep but I will stick with just 5) was created during the flood?

If all the strata in the world was created during the flood where did all the material come from to create the strata?

If you want to declare it was the material that was already there and it was just lifted up in the air and returned to the earth and then setteled in the layers we find today would be in the realm of the same probability of Jesus fulfilling 40 Old Testament prophecies.
Which the probability has been placed at 1 chance in 10 to the 157th power. That is 10 with 157 zeros behind it.

If you want to test my statement just take some instant pudding 1 box of chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, lemon, raspberry, and butterscotch. Mix all 6 boxes up in different containers and throw them into the air at one time, catch them in a container. When these would settle do you think you would have a layer of chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, lemon, raspberry, and butterscotch.

Well the probability for that happening would be zero. They would get all mixed up in the air and then again when they landed in the container. The same thing would happen if you ripped up a 5 mile thick layer of the earth and threw it into the air and then let it settle back to the earth in the water.

You would not have layers of strata you would have a mixed up mess.

Maybe that is the reason your arguments don't get much traction.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 834 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 1:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 860 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 1:22 AM ICANT has taken no action

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 861 of 1352 (808468)
05-11-2017 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 855 by Faith
05-10-2017 11:10 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

Totally disagree, ICANT, I think there's tons of evidence for the worldwide Flood. I don't know much about Ellen G White, I wouldn't read a cultist.

Faith I believe there was a world wide flood that covered the total land mass that existed at Genesis 1:9-10 which would have existed at Genesis 7:24.

But as far as Ellen G. White she is the cornerstone of the Seventh Day Adventist and her hallucinations or visions is what YEC is based upon. So if you are going to believe in something you need to know where it came from.

God bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 11:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 862 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 1:36 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 885 of 1352 (809056)
05-16-2017 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 862 by Faith
05-11-2017 1:36 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

YEC is not based on Ellen G White. I never read White but I've read plenty of creationism and none of it refers to E G White or SDA or any of that..

Walt Brown the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation proposed the Hydroplate Theory. In this theory rocks and water is blasted into space. A 5 mile thick llayer of rock is blown apart and into space and returned to earth and formed the layers we have in the earth today. This had to take place in less than a year and be compacted to withstand 22,000 psi that oil is under that is in the deep wells such as Verizon.

But since he was born in 1937 his theory is relatively young.

Ellen Gould Harmond White was born November 26, 1827 and died July 16, 1915. Her and her husband along with others formed what became known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

At the age of nine, she was severely injured in the face by a stone and was unconscious, for three weeks. From the time she was 17 until she was 70 she claimed God gave her near 2,000 dreams and visions. She wrote 5,000 periodical articles and 40 books. From her manuscripts another 60+ books have been compiled.

quote:
Then "the fountains of the great deep" were "broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Water appeared to come from the clouds in mighty cataracts. Rivers broke away from their boundaries, and overflowed the valleys. Jets of water burst from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and these, in falling, buried themselves deep in the ground.

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction.

As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God,



Patriarchs and Prophets written 1866 Chapter 7 Page 99 The Flood found here http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pp/pp.asp

Now if you can find evidence of such a description of the flood prior to 1866 I will stop mentioning Ellen G. White as the original source of the catastrophic flood story.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 862 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 1:36 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 886 by Faith, posted 05-16-2017 12:53 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 906 of 1352 (809360)
05-18-2017 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 886 by Faith
05-16-2017 12:53 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

ICANT I don't care about who thought what when. What I argue here is my own understanding of what the Flood would have done based on my own observations.; I don't care who came up with what theory.

Then why did you read from a lot of YEC sites?
You already had your observations.

Is there anywhere in your observations that you can point me to how the material for all the gas, oil, and natural gas as well as the coal got buried in the earth and some under as much as 5 miles of rock.

Could you also explain to me where the material to form 3+ trillion barrels of oil came from?

while you are examining your observations you might as well throw in enough material to form the coal, and natural gas while you are at it.

It takes 98 tons of material to produce 1 gallon of gasoline and 1 barrel of crude oil will produce about 20 gallons of gas and 11 gallons of diesel and heating oil.

It would take 1,960 tons of material just to make the gas in 1 barrel of crude oil. That means to make the other 22 gallons of liquid would require more material. But I will just use the gas for brevity.

1,960 * 3,000,000,000,000 = 5,880,000,000,000,000 tons of material required to make just the gasoline. All the coal, natural gas, and ultra-low sulfur distillate fuel oil, and bunker c oil would all require at least as much if not more material.

According to aig there was enough material on earth and floating forests on the oceans to produce all the worlds coal. https://answersingenesis.org/...how-did-we-get-all-this-coal

If their theory that most of the ocean was inhabited by floating forests all the material would be required to make the coal. That would leave nothing to produce the crude oil.

So your young earth creation does not match the observations.
PS their floating forests is a pipe dream as there is no evidence for such to exist.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 886 by Faith, posted 05-16-2017 12:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 907 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 9:44 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 908 of 1352 (809517)
05-18-2017 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 907 by Faith
05-18-2017 9:44 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

ICANT you seem to be going on about other people's theories, not mine.

Are you stating you don't believe in a catastrophic great upheaval of earth and water that happened during the flood making all the strata we find in the earth while placing all the fossils in those strata and laying down all the coal we have?

If that is not what you preach would you lay out exactly what you do believe?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 9:44 AM Faith has taken no action

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1024 of 1352 (812198)
06-15-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 920 by edge
05-20-2017 11:16 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi Edge

Edge writes:

Sure. Okay, please show us where the 'fountains of the deep' were and what is your evidence for them? Just saying that they existed is not evidence.

Edge why would you ask such a question?

You know there are thousands of black smokers in the oceans that spew out superheated water of 350°c constantly.

Isn't these hydrothermal vents where life is supposed to have began to exist?

You should know of the fresh water springs in the oceans as the one off Jacksonville Fl and the ones in the Hawaiian Islands that natives got drinking water for many years.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 920 by edge, posted 05-20-2017 11:16 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1026 by JonF, posted 06-15-2017 12:38 PM ICANT has taken no action
 Message 1028 by edge, posted 06-15-2017 1:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1027 of 1352 (812215)
06-15-2017 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 925 by edge
05-27-2017 9:07 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Edge,

Edge writes:

There is nowhere for the waters to recede to.

The first thing you would need to know to make such a conclusion is how much water are you talking about.

What was the land elevation at the time of the Biblical Flood?
Was there any mountains, if so how high were they?
The Hebrew word translated mountains means a rise in land mass and is translated by our translators as hills, high hill, and mountains at their discretion. Based upon what they know the earth to look like in the days they were living.

Since you are looking at the earth in the shape it is in today you assume it has always been like it is today.

The Imago Mundi from Babylonia, 500 BCE. Is a map that shows a land mass surrounded by water and 7 islands. Showing the islands means they had water transportation and could navigate to these islands. This map has a cuneiform inscription that makes it a copy of an earlier map of the region. So it was a handed down map of an earlier earth. This particular map is over 2500 years old and in existence today.

So we have no way of knowing what the earth was like before the flood. We can only make assumptions.

We do know what it looks like today because we have satellite's that can take pictures of it.

There is sea shells on the top of the mountain ranges which prove that at one time those mountains were covered with water before they were pushed up into mountains.

Genesis 1:2 tells us the land mass of the earth was covered with water. This is required for the sea shells to be on mountain tops.

Genesis 1:9 tells us all water was gathered into one place and dry land appeared. (I get the same picture from that description as the Babylonian Map of the World known as the Imago Mundi.).
This is required for Pangea to exist as science claims.

So if we could ever determine the sea level of the land mass that existed at the time of the flood we could determine how much water we had to get rid of.

Taking into consideration that The Bay of Fundy waters rise 55' and fall 55' every 11+ hours we have an example of how God can move water around to suite His will.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me for God to remove the amount of water needed to cause the dry land to appear as He had already done so in Genesis 1:9.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 925 by edge, posted 05-27-2017 9:07 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1029 by edge, posted 06-15-2017 1:21 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1031 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-15-2017 1:41 PM ICANT has taken no action

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1030 of 1352 (812226)
06-15-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1007 by Coyote
06-14-2017 12:19 PM


Re: I've proved it a million times already
Hi Coyote,

Coyote writes:

Particularly when we have evidence from before, during, and after that time period that conclusively disproves any such flood.

What type of a flood are you talking about being disproved? One like Faith talks about or one like the Bible describes? They are two different things.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1007 by Coyote, posted 06-14-2017 12:19 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1032 by Coyote, posted 06-15-2017 2:10 PM ICANT has taken no action

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1051 of 1352 (812334)
06-16-2017 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1028 by edge
06-15-2017 1:15 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi Edge,

Edge writes:

Now, if these fountains of the deep were as advertised, they should have left behind huge deposits of broken rock, metallic deposits and global blankets of geochemical evidence.

Are you that naïve?

Any hole in the earth is a fountain whether it spews out cold water, hot water, or molten rock.

Edge writes:

Possibly. But how could they when the eruption was supposed to end all life on the planet?

According to whom? The Bible says no such thing.
It only says the water rose and covered the earth.

Edge writes:

Can you show us where such fresh water springs are so explosive as to produce the effect of the global flood that Faith adheres to? In fact, they occur in limestones, do they not? How does that happen?

You been reading AIG's fairy tale books that Faith reads. Or some of the Seventh Day Adventist teachings about the flood.

You sure have not been reading what the Bible says. No wonder you are so mixed up about the Biblical record of the flood.

What evidence do you have that the water coming out of the fountains of the deep would do any damage. The Bible does not say anything about the volcanos erupting only the water rising.

The water in the Bay of Fundy rises 55 feet and falls 55 feet every Eleven plus hours and does very little damage.

The fountains of the deep are not little small cracks in the rocks, and it would take more than limestone to hold the water pressure the water under the ground at the bottom of the sea is under. Any liquid be it water or oil is under a lot of pressure

We have a lot of fountains of the deep in Florida. Silver Springs, at Ocala, Wakula Springs at Wakula and Homosassa Springs, at Homosassa which produces all the drinking water for St Petersburg. Then we have Blue springs, White springs just to name a few. These put out thousands of gallons per hour 24/7. They do no damage. We have wells that produce water the say way except a pipe has been drilled down to where the water is. Although most of those are capped or have a shutoff valve on them now.

But if you want to discuss flood ideas with me you going to have to leave Faith's musings behind. Faith and I agree on one thing and that a world wide flood happened not to far in the past.

k:God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by edge, posted 06-15-2017 1:15 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1055 by JonF, posted 06-16-2017 7:42 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 1056 by Coyote, posted 06-16-2017 9:36 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 1058 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:45 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 1068 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 12:11 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1078 by edge, posted 06-16-2017 4:01 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1052 of 1352 (812335)
06-16-2017 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1029 by edge
06-15-2017 1:21 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Edge,

Edge writes:

ETA: Face it. This would be the biggest geological event in the history of the earth and yet we don't see anything other than normal processes going back into geological history.

The water came from the sky and from the fountains of the deep.

As far as the biggest geological event in the history of the earth. Why don't you take a trip to the Bay of Fundy and watch the tide come in and go out.

If you don't want to take the trip and see it in person you can visit it online. You will notice that even though the water rises and falls 55 feet in 11+ hours it does very little damage.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by edge, posted 06-15-2017 1:21 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1077 by edge, posted 06-16-2017 3:51 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1160 of 1352 (813086)
06-23-2017 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1056 by Coyote
06-16-2017 9:36 AM


Re: The date of the flood...
Hi Coyote,

Coyote writes:

When do you place it?

According to the different scholars the Bible says it took place about 2348 BC. It just depends on which one you believe.

I know you don't believe in any # they come up with because you do not believe in the Super Natural or in God.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1056 by Coyote, posted 06-16-2017 9:36 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1164 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 10:06 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1161 of 1352 (813087)
06-23-2017 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1058 by Faith
06-16-2017 9:45 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

I don't follow any particular creationist ministries.

You mean to tell me that you come up with all these unbiblical stories all by yourself.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1058 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:45 AM Faith has taken no action

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1162 of 1352 (813088)
06-23-2017 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1068 by ringo
06-16-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:


That's exactly what the bible says:

Can you give me chapter and verse where an eruption took when talking about the fountains of the deep.

You do know we have fountains of the deep today and we call them springs don't you?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1165 by ringo, posted 06-23-2017 11:47 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 191 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1163 of 1352 (813095)
06-23-2017 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1078 by edge
06-16-2017 4:01 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi edge,

edge writes:

As you wish. However, I don't see any of these things producing a flood.

Are you trying to convince me that rain and water from springs could not cause a flood?

edge writes:

Okay, so that's your story.

No that is the Bible story and I am sticking with it.

edge writes:

Well, reading YEC stories does get confusing.

Yes they do.

qs=

edge writes:

Hey, I can only know what you guys tell me about a fanciful event.

Nothing fancy about it. It just rained and the water rose for a hundred and fifty days.

edge writes:

Most tsunamis are less than that and do a lot of damage.

Yes, and in a tsunami all the water is traveling in one direction, and is caused by an earthquake.

According to the Bible story the water would have come from every direction and had 150 days to cover the earth. Which no one knows the elevation of land mass that existed at that time.

edge writes:

That's nice. But not really relevant. None of them would flood the earth. And I have been to some of them. Do you understand where the water coming from these springs comes from?

Sure I know where it comes from.

Do you know where the water came from out of the fountains of the deep.

I would say in places like scientists found probing the earth's interior in Asia. They found a reservoir of water the size of the artic ocean.

Open up a bunch of holes in that baby and you would get a lot of water. Since we know that one exists that gives us high probability that there were more before the flood that opened up and the ocean floor collapsed into the cavity, after the flood and that is where the water went to after the flood.

edge writes:


Well, in that case, you are both wrong. There is no evidence to suggest that such a thing happened.

Just what evidence would you expect to find?
Especially since the earth was divided at least a hundred and fifty years after the flood took place.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by edge, posted 06-16-2017 4:01 PM edge has taken no action

  
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