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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1166 of 1352 (813146)
06-23-2017 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1055 by JonF
06-16-2017 7:42 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi Jon,
JonF writes:
But then you have no evidence of any of those holes producing water in the quantity required. Calling them fountains is just labeling.
As I have said there is no knowledge of the sea level of the land mass at the time of the flood. There was only one land mass at that time.
So can you tell me how much water was required to cover a mass of land that we don't know the elevation of?
As I mentioned to edge there is lots of water underground ,that has been found besides the ground water that migrates to the aquifer.
The earth today is not what it was in the past.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1055 by JonF, posted 06-16-2017 7:42 AM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1170 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2017 4:41 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1186 by 14174dm, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1167 of 1352 (813147)
06-23-2017 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by Coyote
06-23-2017 10:06 AM


Re: The date of the flood...
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
How can you reconcile that date with the fact that we have archaeological evidence for that date showing no flood features, showing continuity of human cultures from before and after that date, and we have genetic patterns that are the same from before to after that date? And this is from my own archaeological research.
What would you expect to find? The Bible says the earth was divided after the flood.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 10:06 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1168 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 4:08 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1169 of 1352 (813150)
06-23-2017 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1165 by ringo
06-23-2017 11:47 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
I did. Genesis 6:7 and Genesis 6:13 show that God's intention was "the end of all flesh". Forty days and nights of rain, along with the fountains of the deep, was the means to that end.
quote:
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
I see nothing about eruption.
quote:
Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
I see nothing about eruption there either.
But yes the idea was to destroy all creatures that breathed air.
ringo writes:
If you're saying that the fountains of the deep were plain old ordinary everyday springs, you're shooting yourself in the foot. All they do is recycle water and there ain't enough of it for the flood as described in Genesis. Floodists have to make up magical fountains shooting water from magical subterranean oceans to account for the depth of water.
But I am talking about fountains opened up from huge supplies of water as the body of water in Asia. There could have been many of them. The water being under great pressure would come forth through what ever hole was made in the rock which hole was later pluged when God closed them. Later the rocks that had covered the water would cave in and sink to the bottom when the water started to recede so the water could go back where it came from. It would just be above the land mas rather than in the earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1165 by ringo, posted 06-23-2017 11:47 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2017 7:05 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1183 by ringo, posted 06-24-2017 12:11 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1185 by JonF, posted 06-24-2017 1:18 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1171 of 1352 (813152)
06-23-2017 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1077 by edge
06-16-2017 3:51 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Of course not, it's a normal every day event. It's not a tsunami.
And where does the Bible say anything about the flood being a tsunami? You been listening to YEC'S too much. They say a lot of things that the Bible does not say about the flood.
What if you had a single land mass that was at 4' above sea level at it highest point, surrounded by water and that water began to rise like it does at the Bay of Fundy. Except coming from all direction of the land mass. How much damage would be done to the land mass?
It would not have to rise as fast as it does at the Bay of Fundy to put 15 cubits of water on the highest part of the land mass. If we are talking about 34 feet of water, and 40 days to reach that height.
That would take 10.25"s of water per day or .425"s per hr.
Now if you wanted to make the land mass higher you would not increase the volume required to do the job by much water per hr.
That is the reason I mention the Bay of Fundy which is a sight to behold in person.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1077 by edge, posted 06-16-2017 3:51 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1172 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2017 6:05 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1176 by JonF, posted 06-23-2017 7:52 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1178 by Boof, posted 06-23-2017 8:43 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1174 of 1352 (813156)
06-23-2017 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1170 by Tangle
06-23-2017 4:41 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
The 'oceans' underground are not in a free flowing state, the water is fused into rock 400 miles deep. Feel free to invoke a miracle.
Why would I need a miracle? I got a 5 mile deep area in which to store water.
Did I say anything about the water that is 400 miles deep?
The Russians got water in their 7 mile deep hole they drilled. So I would think you could hide a lot of water in the 5 mile deep holes the oil companies drill and get water. They use separator's to separate the oil and water. Which is under a lot of pressure at that depth.
But you don't have to go 400 miles to find water that is trapped in rock. Water is in an abundant state you can find enough in the asthenosphere to fill the present oceans over 7 times.
I wonder how that water got there as the rocks was there before water got to the planet.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1170 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2017 4:41 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1180 by edge, posted 06-23-2017 9:26 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1175 of 1352 (813158)
06-23-2017 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by Tangle
06-23-2017 6:05 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
And I guess the Mountains of Ararat (5,137m) where pushed up quietly during the rising tide?
As the single land mass would have no mountains as the earth had not been divided at that point. That happened at least 109 years after the flood as the earth was divided in the days of Peleg.
God :Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2017 6:05 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1177 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 8:00 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1181 by Tangle, posted 06-24-2017 2:48 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 1184 by ringo, posted 06-24-2017 12:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1191 of 1352 (813373)
06-27-2017 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1177 by Coyote
06-23-2017 8:00 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
If you are placing the dividing of the continents 109 years after the flood, the Atlantic Ocean gap would have had to spread 1 mile per year between then and 1492 when major European exploration began--and then it would have had to stop abruptly!
What mechanism accounts for this?
Why do you have to have a mechanism?
God divided the continents in a nano second. They are still moving a small amount as they come to a stop.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by Coyote, posted 06-23-2017 8:00 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1204 by Coyote, posted 06-27-2017 10:03 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1192 of 1352 (813375)
06-27-2017 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1178 by Boof
06-23-2017 8:43 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi Boof, welcome to EvC as my first time replying to you.
Boof writes:
So a couple of quick questions for you ICant. Under your model how long did Noah and all his hundreds / thousands of animals need to survive on the ark for
12 Jewish months and 10 days, or possibly 13 Jewish months and 10 days.
Boof writes:
and where did they get all their water from?
It was not listed in Noah's things to do to supply the water or to remove the waste. He was told to build an ark and to gather food.
Everything else was taken care of by God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1178 by Boof, posted 06-23-2017 8:43 PM Boof has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1193 of 1352 (813376)
06-27-2017 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1182 by jar
06-24-2017 7:32 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Change leaves evidence. Remove the water from below ground and you will find evidence of that at the surface. San Joaquin Valley has subsided over 30 feet just from pumping irrigation water.
I live in Florida and I know that when water is pumped out of a pocket in the earth no matter what size it is the dirt and rock above can and does sink into the cavern. This is where the water of the flood receded too. The caverns and the holes created by some collapsing.
Everybody wants to know where the water came from and where it went. It came from under ground and from the sky. It went back into the sky and the caverns underground or caved in holes in the surface.
The flood is no fantasy.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1182 by jar, posted 06-24-2017 7:32 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1203 by jar, posted 06-27-2017 8:46 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1194 of 1352 (813377)
06-27-2017 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1183 by ringo
06-24-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
And the "eruption" of the fountains of the deep was a part of that idea.
The Bible says nothing about an "eruption", it says that God opened the fountains of the deep.
You can bust a water pipe and have an eruption. But if you turn the valve and open it you have a flow not an eruption.
ringo writes:
If God miraculously turned the fountains on and off, why do you say anything about science at all? Why not just say God poofed the water into existence and then poofed it out of existence?
Yes God could have just poofed all the water required to flood the earth by spiting it into the oceans.
He could have also sunk the land mass in the surrounding water, just like He made it rise out of the water.
But He did not. He chose to have the water available in the earth and sky to use for the flood.
Then after the flood He could use the water to cool the asthenosphere when He divided the earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by ringo, posted 06-24-2017 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1208 by ringo, posted 06-27-2017 11:53 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1195 of 1352 (813381)
06-27-2017 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1189 by Tangle
06-26-2017 7:16 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
The only reason you're forced to invent biblical happenings and attempt to force them into modern science's understandings is because you need to believe in an iron age myth. It's truly bizarre - it's bad science and it's bad biblically.
What is truly bizarre and pathetic is that people who don't believe in God tells me:
SCIENCE STORY
Non-existence created existence and everything in it.
Chaos created order.
Non-Life created life.
Non-Consciousness created consciousness.
Non-rational created rational.
Blind created vision.
Deaf created hearing.
There is no mechanism for non-existence to create existence. Therefore none of the others would have ever taken place.
Those people who believe the above call me all kind of names and tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Maybe so but it is much harder to believe that non-existence created existence, than In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. It takes much more faith to believe in the Science Story than the Bible Story.
The reason people will believe that non-existence can create existence is because they want no higher power than they are.
When the woman ate the fruit and became as God knowing good and evil, every since then mankind have wanted to be their own God and make their own rules.
BIBLE STORY
The Bible says God created the universe.
The Bible says :God created man in His own image.
When God created the universe He did a perfect job.
That earth had no oceans only a river that divided into 4 that watered the whole earth.
Man messed up and sin entered the universe.
At some point in the light period God created the heavens and the earth God destroyed mankind all animals and all the cities they had built.
Then God created darkness that is found at Genesis 1:2.
When that period of darkness came to an end God called it 'day one'.
Then He had to do some work as the earth was not suitable for man to inhabit.
Now a God that could create this universe and everything in it would have no problem with a little flood to cover the land mass of the earth. He had already covered it one time probably trillions of years ago as we count time.
Now if you or anyone else would like to discuss my assertions feel free to start a thread and send me an email. My email address is in my profile.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1189 by Tangle, posted 06-26-2017 7:16 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1198 by Tangle, posted 06-27-2017 4:46 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1196 of 1352 (813382)
06-27-2017 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1190 by JonF
06-26-2017 8:56 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Jon,
JonF writes:
No. If it was converted to a uniform layer over a perfect sphere the size of the Earth it would be 2.7 km thick, and there would be no land-based life.
That would equal 8,856 feet.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1190 by JonF, posted 06-26-2017 8:56 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1201 by JonF, posted 06-27-2017 8:18 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1197 of 1352 (813383)
06-27-2017 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by CRR
06-26-2017 5:51 AM


Re: how much water?
Hi Jon,
JonF writes:
During and after the flood there could have been large vertical tectonic movements to produce great depths of sediment in places and mountains that today are at heights greater than the maximum depth of the flood.
After the flood in the days of Peleg God divided the earth and that is when all the mountain ranges were created.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by CRR, posted 06-26-2017 5:51 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1202 by JonF, posted 06-27-2017 8:19 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 1230 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:39 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1200 of 1352 (813387)
06-27-2017 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1186 by 14174dm
06-24-2017 8:29 PM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
Hi 1417dm,
1417dm writes:
Look for evidence in the rock strata. How deep is the sediment you think was deposited by the Flood? IIRC Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase strata total 10,000 ft.
The Bay of Fundy rises and falls 55 feet every 12 hours minus a few minutes.It has been doing it since between 2247 BC and 2008 BC.
That is between 4,264 years and 4,015 years in the past.
It is still there on the shoreline. It comes and goes and leaves little if any sediment and has not eroded the seaside very much.
So I don't think there would be any more sediment than a small local flood would produce.
The Grand Canyon was formed during and after the days of Peleg, when the earth was divided..
By the way I think all that strata was formed over trillions of years, as we know time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by 14174dm, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1205 of 1352 (813415)
06-27-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1184 by ringo
06-24-2017 12:21 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The "division of the earth" refers to the proliferation of languages after the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11). It has nothing to do with land masses.
So says Hebrew scholar ringo.
In Genesis 11:7 God confounded the languages.
In Genesis 11:8 They scattered themselves because they could not understand each other. So those who spoke alike got to gather and moved into a new territory.
Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
In Genesis 10 25 the Hebrew word פלג is translated divided. It means divide or split.
This verse appears in the Bible 4 times. Genesis 10:25, 1 Ch 1:19 Job 38.25, and Psa 55:9.
1 Ch 1:19 is quoting Genesis 10:25. That leaves 2 verses.
Job 38:25 is talking about dividing land with water.
Psa. 55:9 A prayer to destroy and divide the tongue of the people.
Genesis 10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
In verse 32 the Hebrew word חלק is translated divided. This word means: 1.to separate, divide.
This word appears 26 times in the Bible and translated: separate 12, part 4, divided 3, scattered abroad 1, dispersed 1, joint 1, scattered 1, severed 1, stretched 1, sundered 1.
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
In this verse the Hebrew word פוץ is translated scattered. It means: 1.to scatter, be dispersed, be scattered.
This word is used 67 times: scatter 48, scatter abroad 6, disperse 3, spread abroad 2, cast abroad 2, drive 1, break to pieces 1, shake to pieces 1, dash to pieces 1, retired 1
Now if the author had wanted to say the people were scattered over the face of the earth in Genesis 10:25 why wouldn't he have used the word used in 11:8 which would have been the best choice. The second choice would have been the one in Genesis 10:32.
If you will pay close attention you will find that these three Hebrew words are different with different meanings and used to portray something different.
Since the author knew the meaning of the words he used he chose one that best show what he was trying to point out.
He was trying to point out that the land mass that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was divided with watercourses which is exactly what we see.
These are the facts if you care to dispute them please do so giving your reasoning that the texts do not say what I have presented.
This is getting a little far (maybe a lot) off the OP so if you would like to discuss it further please start a new thread in which to do so as I will not address it in this thread again.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1184 by ringo, posted 06-24-2017 12:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1210 by ringo, posted 06-27-2017 12:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
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