Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 220 of 1352 (805455)
04-18-2017 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by NoNukes
04-18-2017 2:40 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past, all your dates are guesses about how long anything would have taken in reality. Tou only have today's rates to extrapolate from. I agree it seems quite reasonable but reasonable isn't proven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 2:40 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 223 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Faith has replied
 Message 224 by Coyote, posted 04-18-2017 4:48 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 242 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 9:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 225 of 1352 (805462)
04-18-2017 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 4:43 PM


Re: On "opinions"
As you have no way of actually seeing into the past, your dinosaur theory is a guess about how we got all those fossils."
That's true. Everything in the past is a matter of interpretation. The advantage we believers in the bible have is that we actually have a document that describes an event in the past. You guys have nothing but guesses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:05 PM Faith has replied
 Message 234 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:18 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 226 of 1352 (805465)
04-18-2017 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 4:41 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
Eighteen miles at its widest, and various buttes it had to carve around. No way. The look of the canyon fits a great cataract of water pouring over all the sides as well as through the canyon itself, the carving helped by a lot of abrasive stuff in the water, chunks of strata that broke up above the canyon mouth level being the best candidate. The river is a puny instrument for such a job.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:41 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:10 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 229 of 1352 (805468)
04-18-2017 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 5:05 PM


Re: On "opinions"
NO, you know I didn't say that. I agreed that your THEORY about thye dinossaurs isn't provable. The EXISTENCE of dinosaurs some time in the paqst is certainly proved. The bones prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:05 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:18 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 231 of 1352 (805470)
04-18-2017 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by jar
04-18-2017 5:02 PM


Re: On "opinions"
he "You only have today's rates to extrapolate from" is not simply factually wrong, willfully ignorant and dishonest, it's stupid as well. We have uranium halos; we have the properties of stars, we have fossils, we have the evidence in the rocks, we have genetics including human as well as plant and animal genetics from thousands of years before Adam.
All of those things suffer from the same problem, that there is no witness of any of it IN THE PAST. it's all a matter of interpretation/guesswork from facts in the present. None of it as good as dinosaur bones.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 5:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 5:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 232 of 1352 (805471)
04-18-2017 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 5:10 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
The amount of water that has been flowing for the last 4000 years isn't the same as the amount that would have initially broken into the canyon. It might have bene more, actually, who knows?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:10 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 1352 (805475)
04-18-2017 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 5:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
My theory is interpretation too. What we argue is plausible interpretations. The point is that the claims by Old Earthers and evolutionistas are NOT the ironclad facts they claim they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:18 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 237 of 1352 (805476)
04-18-2017 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Tangle
04-18-2017 5:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Nope. It's a trustworthy document attested by 3000 years of use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:18 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:31 PM Faith has replied
 Message 240 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 243 of 1352 (805488)
04-18-2017 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by NoNukes
04-18-2017 9:40 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Yes, astronomy has the means to verify its theories, as I thought I said. The telescope. Space travel. None of the sciences of earth's history have such means. But I'm mot sure the astronomical timing is verified. Same problem as dating methods for earth.
Except the Bible is a way to look into earth's past.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 9:40 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 10:48 PM Faith has replied
 Message 250 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:13 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 244 of 1352 (805489)
04-18-2017 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by jar
04-18-2017 5:50 PM


Re: On "opinions"
None of them is a direct witness. they are no better than our interpretations in the present.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 5:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 8:13 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 246 of 1352 (805491)
04-18-2017 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 5:31 PM


Re: On "opinions"
There's no point in continuing in this hopeless debate about the Bible, but I think it's been quite reliable as a clue to events in the past, certainly the occurrence and timing of the Flood. It gives enough facts to track time as well as enough to lead to evidence for the Flood. The rest of you operate on your own fallen methods, the interpretations of your own fallen minds, not reliable at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 247 of 1352 (805492)
04-18-2017 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by NoNukes
04-18-2017 10:48 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The Bible describes the earth covered in water and it provides some good clues to dating certain events. All the rest is conjecture based on it. The point is by using the Bible we are way ahead of those who rely only on their own fallible methods.
I
'm happy to concede any point you want to make about astronomy. I think there are good reasons to trust it as a science. Not the case with the sciences of earth's history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 10:48 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 249 of 1352 (805494)
04-18-2017 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 5:10 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
Eighteen miles at its widest, and various buttes it had to carve around. No way.
Show your working?
If you are denying that there are such obstacles in the wide part of the canyon I'll take it back until I can come up with the evidence. I thought it was pretty obvious from lots of photographs.
The look of the canyon fits a great cataract of water pouring over all the sides ...
Which sides? Have you tried to visualize what you're talking about?
There was another mile of strata above the current rim of the canyoni when the Flood started receding, so it would have rushed in from all sides as the cracks widened, washing away the uppermost layers until it got down to the current plateau. It would have been a great sheet of waterfall over the sides. There are lots of waterfalls in the canyon even now, many of them pouring from between the strata, but here's one from the top:
The river is a puny instrument for such a job.
7 times the volume of the Med, remember? That's a lot of water.
I'm sure there are many rivers with greater volume that haven't carved canyons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:10 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:38 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 251 of 1352 (805496)
04-18-2017 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 11:03 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Some things like the Bible are intended to compensate for our fallen minds. Most of the sciences rely on many people able to replicate the work, that fact certainly compensates for our fallen minds. They aren't sciences that are trying to peer into the undocumented /unwitnessed past.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:03 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 8:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 252 of 1352 (805497)
04-18-2017 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 11:13 PM


Re: On "opinions"
No it isn't. The viewer through the telescope becomes a direct witness. All dating methods rely on assumptions, interpretations, extrapolations. The Bible's timing contradicts all of it, of course, and it IS a direct witness. It should be considered above all the other methods for that reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:13 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 11:56 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 257 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 11:56 PM Faith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024