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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1231 of 1352 (813486)
06-28-2017 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1206 by ICANT
06-27-2017 11:38 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
God moved each continent to where they are in a nano second.
Catastrophic plate tectonics during the flood year seems more likely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1206 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 11:38 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1239 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2017 2:39 PM CRR has replied
 Message 1243 by edge, posted 06-28-2017 8:47 PM CRR has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1232 of 1352 (813487)
06-28-2017 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1230 by CRR
06-28-2017 12:39 AM


Re: ‘Peleg: for in his days was the earth divided’.
quote:
Ancient documents are consistent with the total accuracy of the Bible’s chronoloby
Not in any significant way. If you assume that Babylon is not Babel, then it must be founded at some time after the birth of Peleg. But archaeology makes it clear that by the time Babylon was founded there were people all over the Earth, and had been for a long time - hardly consistent with Babylon being founded shortly after the division.
As for ancient documents perhaps you would like to look at the Sumerian Kings List and work out when Eridu was founded. Or perhaps you will trust archaeology instead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1230 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:39 AM CRR has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1233 of 1352 (813540)
06-28-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1227 by NoNukes
06-27-2017 7:21 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
Further, your past discussions with arachno-guy have left the impression that you are not to be taken as an unquestioned expert on Hebrew.
arachno-guy (arachnophilia ) as you call him has studied modern Hebrew and wants to apply modern Hebrew rules to a language that has been dead for over 2200 years.
The following are my assessments of the words used in the different verses with the meaning of the words from Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, you can go look them up for yourself if you don't want to accept what I have presented.
I am going to insert links to where you and anybody else can verify my information that I have presented.
ICANT with corrections writes:
Message 1205 Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. http://bibledatabase.net/html/kjv/genesis_10.html
In Genesis 10 25 the Hebrew word פלג is translated divided. It means divide or split water . It is used of a land mass being divided by water in Job 38,25. Why would it mean anything else here. It does not mean the same as the Hebrew word in verse 32.
404
If the author wanted to refer to the people being divided why didn't he use the same word in verse 25? Did he forget which word to use that quick?
Genesis 10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
In verse 32 the Hebrew word חלק is translated divided. This word means: 1.to separate, divide.
This is incorrect as I used the wrong reference for the word. This word is from Genesis 14:15
404 it means 1.to divide, share, plunder, allot, apportion, assign.
The correct word is פרד It is translated separate, divide and is used a total of 26 times. and can be found here.
404
Do those 2 words look like they are the same word?
Do they have the same meaning?
Why did the author choose the one he did in verse 25? I think he used it because it had something to do with water dividing land.
The same Hebrew word used in Genesis 10:32 is used in 10:5 both are translated divided.
Why would the author choose a different word in verse 25 which is between the usage in verse 5 and 32 if he did not want to say something different. Remember the author had no control over the translators and what words they used to represent what thought he was trying to convey to his readers. The Hebrews of his days would have no problem in understanding what he said.
The Hebrew word used in Genesis 10:25 is used only 4 times in the Bible. 404
If you scroll down you will find the usage of this word and the different ways it could be translated. You scroll down a little further you will find Gesenius's opinion. A little further down you will find the four verses listed in which it is used.
The first two are about the same identical things as the scribes thought it should be part of the history.
In Job it is used of dividing a watercourse. Which is what would happen is the continents were moved into their present place from the single land mass that appeared in Genesis 1:9.
In the psalms it is used in a prayer asking God to divide the people's tongues. Sounds like he wanted God to stop them from being able to speak. Or either to make the Indian's statement "white man speak with forked tongue" true.
Thanks for your post as it made me find the mistake I had used and I would have hated to have used it in my book.
God Bless

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1227 by NoNukes, posted 06-27-2017 7:21 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 9:58 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1234 of 1352 (813542)
06-28-2017 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1226 by 14174dm
06-27-2017 6:18 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi dm
14174dm writes:
AHHH whiplash!
Can you blink your eye in a nano second?
I don't think so, therefore you would not get whiplash. In fact you would not even know it took place.
14174dm writes:
Why wouldn't all the stuff fall off when God whipped the continents thousands of miles? I can't keep the coffee cup on the roof of my car in my driveway.
You have never seen a tablecloth removed from a table that has a 6 place setting of all glasses, plates, forks, knives, spoons and food removed without disturbing them, have you?
14174dm writes:
The other part that I really want to know is WHY? He goes to the effort to nag Noah and his family into spending 100 years building the ark, sends the flood with all that effort, and then decides to just whip the continents across the planet. He could have just squished all the evil people and kept the animals.
God did not nag anyone. He simply told Noah He was going to destroy all life forms on the earth with water and he should build an ark.
Noah did not have to build the ark.
But he believed God so he built an ark God did not consult anyone other than Noah.
He delayed the flood so Noah had time to warn the people what was going to happen so they perished.
I preach the gospel today that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind and all they have to do is accept God's offer of a free full pardon to escape eternal death in hell. By doing that they can escape the judgment that is to come. But many people today choose not to believe God and will perish just like those in the flood.
But a person that does not believe in God will never believe He will do what He said He would do.
God Bless, My email is available in my profile.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1226 by 14174dm, posted 06-27-2017 6:18 PM 14174dm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1258 by 14174dm, posted 07-01-2017 7:03 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1235 of 1352 (813544)
06-28-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1228 by NoNukes
06-27-2017 7:24 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
What word would you use instead for moving a continent at greater than the speed of light... supernatural? Unearthly?
The term I would use is "made up without any Biblical support".
God speaks and it is done.
All I know is that the Bible says in the days of peleg the earth was divided.
God gives no details of how He did it.
Doing it in a nano second is my opinion. The earth was divided some 4k years ago so He had to do it instantly. In fact the brakes are still stopping it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1228 by NoNukes, posted 06-27-2017 7:24 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1236 by DrJones*, posted 06-28-2017 1:54 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1240 by NoNukes, posted 06-28-2017 3:16 PM ICANT has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 1236 of 1352 (813548)
06-28-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1235 by ICANT
06-28-2017 1:33 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
The earth was divided some 4k years ago so He had to do it instantly. In fact the brakes are still stopping it.
Why couldn't he stop the movement instantly? too lazy? distracted by a shiny object? impotent?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
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*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1235 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2017 1:33 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1237 of 1352 (813550)
06-28-2017 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1229 by NoNukes
06-27-2017 7:50 PM


Re: how much water?
Hi NoNukes
NoNukes writes:
Just what else did the Bible author get wrong?
In fact, if the author was not omniscient, how would he know anything about the Flood? Or about creation. How far do you want to go with this?
The author spent 80 days on a mountain with God so I assume God told him what he wanted us to know. He may even have shown him.
Then told him to write all those things down in a book. Now there has been a lot of people who have been involved in the process of copying those books between the time Mose wrote them and the manuscripts we have today.
The things I have put forth on this site concerning the creation story I have believed since I was 10 years old.I had read the bible a couple of times and I presented my story to a prayer meeting group November 23, 1949.
I had never been exposed to any preaching that was not a simple message of salvation and living a clean life. We had no TV to listen to and warp my mind. The only battery radio we had was on for 5 minutes in the evening to listen to Edward R Murrow report on the war. (battery was very expensive) Sometime Grandpa would listen to the Grand Ol Opery on Saturday night for 30 minutes.
So I had no outside influence to influence what I believed about creation. The only thing I had was the promise that I had the Holy Spirit to lead me and guide me in all truth.
I have been searching for the truth every since that first message. I did not start preaching until 1962.
NoNukes writes:
I'll take it one step further. If the writer was fallible, then why do you lean on word choice the way you do. Maybe the whole thing is just wrong.
Well if It is there were some very smart people in the past as they were able to foretell thousands of things that was going to take place that has come to pass.
That does not mean that the texts have not been tampered with over the years. All you have to do is look in a Bible book store and you will find hundreds of bibles that have been changed to suite mankind.
That is the reason I studied Hebrew and Greek. By knowing them I can examine the same documents and stones, or pictures of them for myself. I may not be able to find all the truth but I will keep searching for it until I get home and know it all. (home being heaven)
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1229 by NoNukes, posted 06-27-2017 7:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1238 of 1352 (813551)
06-28-2017 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1230 by CRR
06-28-2017 12:39 AM


Re: ‘Peleg: for in his days was the earth divided’.
Hi CRR
CRR writes:
There's also a good discussion here
I do not mind reading from a web site but I am not going to listen to a discourse in order to get to read it.
CRR writes:
There might well have been mountains before the flood but most of today's mountains would be post flood. The entire landscape would have been terraformed during the flood.
To get 5 miles or more of strata the mountains had to be taller than they are now.
I do not believe in a flood that has been made into what the YEC movement has presented as a catastrophic event. There could not have been enough vegetation on the earth to produce all the oil, natural gas and coal in the earth. AIG says there was enough to produce the coal but they neglect to address where the trillions of tons would have come from to produce the oil and natural gas.
BTW I am old earth, I believe it is older than anyone on site does.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1230 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:39 AM CRR has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1239 of 1352 (813552)
06-28-2017 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1231 by CRR
06-28-2017 12:41 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi CRR
CRR writes:
Catastrophic plate tectonics during the flood year seems more likely.
For the plates to move from where they were at to where they are now over a year would have boiled all the water out of the ocean and destroyed everything on the planet.
Besides that would make the Bible a lie.
Peleg had not been born at the time of the flood so it could not have happened during the flood as he was born 109 years after the flood.
I only have 2 options to choose from. It either happened over 250 million more or less.
God spoke and it was.
Easy choice for me.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:41 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1244 by CRR, posted 06-29-2017 6:49 AM ICANT has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1240 of 1352 (813560)
06-28-2017 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1235 by ICANT
06-28-2017 1:33 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Going it in a nano second is my opinion. The earth was divided some 4k years ago so He had to do it instantly.
Why would it have to be instantly? Nothing in the Bible requires that. Of course you've already acknowledge making up a time of a nanosecond. Why could it not have been in two seconds? Or in an hour?
God gives no details of how He did it.
Fortunately, God left you to fill in the details for us. Am I right?
God speaks and it is done.
You must be the most evasive poster ever to scribe here. Apparently posting a direct answer to a question is some kind of losing proposition for you.
Again, you tell us that the author of the Bible was not omniscient and your interpretation even assumes that the author was mistaken. Given that, and your propensity to make up the details, perhaps I should continue the discussion with people who at least have a reason for what they say.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1241 of 1352 (813561)
06-28-2017 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1222 by ICANT
06-27-2017 2:04 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
ICANT writes:
Then show me where my Hebrew words are incorrect and do not mean exactly what I said they mean.
I've already showed you that your interpretation makes no sense in context. The division happened long after the Flood, so it doesn't make sense to tie it physically to the Flood. And since the time of Peleg coincides nicely with the time of the Tower of Babel, it makes much more sense to connect those two events.
Once again, Pangea separated long before there were any civilized people on the earth. Even IF the Bible said what you claim, it DOES NOT agree with science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1222 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 2:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1261 by ICANT, posted 07-02-2017 10:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1242 of 1352 (813562)
06-28-2017 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1206 by ICANT
06-27-2017 11:38 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
ICANT writes:
God moved each continent to where they are in a nano second.
No magic at all.
If you don't understand what the English word "magic" means, why should anybody accept what you say about the meaning of Hebrew words?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1206 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 11:38 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1243 of 1352 (813586)
06-28-2017 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1231 by CRR
06-28-2017 12:41 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Catastrophic plate tectonics during the flood year seems more likely.
That's not saying much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by CRR, posted 06-28-2017 12:41 AM CRR has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1244 of 1352 (813600)
06-29-2017 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1239 by ICANT
06-28-2017 2:39 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
For the plates to move from where they were at to where they are now over a year would have boiled all the water out of the ocean and destroyed everything on the planet.
It took well over one year, in fact the continents are still moving. It probably did generate a lot of volcanic activity which raised temperatures, increased evaporation, precipitation, and eventually the post flood ice age. What caused the Ice Age?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1239 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2017 2:39 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1245 by Pressie, posted 06-29-2017 7:14 AM CRR has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 1245 of 1352 (813601)
06-29-2017 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1244 by CRR
06-29-2017 6:49 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Oh, great, now you give us a reference to a meteorologist writing about plate tectonics. Sorry, I don't buy it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1244 by CRR, posted 06-29-2017 6:49 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1246 by CRR, posted 06-29-2017 8:17 AM Pressie has not replied

  
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