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Author Topic:   Laws happened by accident ? and did Laws evolve ?
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 1 of 114 (804799)
04-12-2017 11:17 AM


Lets discuss and consider whether or not the laws of the Universe, laws of Nature, Laws of Physics, just happened, and were always present magically somehow someway, starting from their so called INNATE PROPERTIES in the Beginning. Lets discuss if explosions and Big Bangs gave them these properties and whether the LAWS they obey were just magically there by an unseen force called Evolution (or via God). Or whether these laws ever changed in time as so called evolving conditions made the magic of selection, make the envirorment choose the right laws. Did laws ever evolve or are they a constant ?

Do evolutionists only apply their magic formula of mutations on living organisms that are already alive, or does it apply to all realms, whether animate or inanimate. Has Physics evolved, Have the LAWS evolved and are they now still evolving is the many questions to answer HERE.

Creationists are welcome to answer as well.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 1:43 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 2 of 114 (804800)
04-13-2017 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-12-2017 11:17 AM


I have presented my topic, and within it are numerous questions all about the laws or physics of the Universe. These can be the parameters of the discussions........ as I dont see that anyone else or any other topic has covered this important area, of whether laws evolved or whether they were created.

Can we start this topic of discussion and/or can you transfer this science topic to the forum of your choosing, so we may begin.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-12-2017 11:17 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 4 of 114 (804809)
04-13-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 1:43 AM


Debate is two sided rather than unilateral proofs
First my or the creationist logic.

The Lord or if you like the Creator created all laws at once in one fell unified swoop. There was no evolution of laws with the so called evolution of life, or so called evolution of selection via conditions.

So come on evolutionist, your turn.

When did the laws of the Universe come into existence or were they magically there from the Beginning. Have any of them changed or been created since the beginning or your BIG EXPLOSIVE BANG of CREATION.

If you have no opinion or theory, then creationism wins by your default. So do step forward and be brave enough to enter the debate......


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 1:43 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 8 of 114 (804814)
04-13-2017 9:58 AM


I repeat, true debate is two sided
Darn evolutionists just cant read and cant debate.

Jar, learn to follow the topic and parameters.

"First, is there any evidence there is some Creator or Lord?"

NO, you have the guts and courage to defend your position, so STATE IT.

Have some courage, have some integrity, learn how to debate.

No wonder I avoid your ******** comments. So lets hear from a honest evolutionists who has some answers.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2017 11:00 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 9 of 114 (804816)
04-13-2017 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Percy
04-13-2017 9:53 AM


Verry Good Percy, no changes in laws since creation
Thanks Percy for standing up for evolutionary theory.

For you rightly say that in your theory ... ""The observational evidence indicates that the laws of the universe have been in place unchanged since the Big Bang. I know there has been speculation that the fine structure constant has changed slightly over time, but that hasn't yet been confirmed.

--Percy ""

Other evolutionists can differ with you if they please, but lets analyse your statement, as I would say and agree with you that evolution says, all laws were there from CREATION. Your creation in your theory is the Big Explosive Bang, mine is the Creative Week of the Lord of Lords.

Hence we are very very close in our science history, just a semantic difference. You would suggest that it is all by random luck and chance that this BIG EXPLOSION created life (that supposed evolved in time into different species and then more different species etc etc). Why because throughout this discussion board, evolutionists do confirm that evolution is based on sheer lucky mutations. Right.

So Percy, I would assume you are saying evolution does not change laws nor did it ever create laws.. Is that RIGHT ?

(I love the FINE STRUCTURE CONSTANT, that again proves creation, but that can be for another THREAD..WE shall stick to the topic and HEREIN stay on topic)

Thanks for your honesty, and POST

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 9:53 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 10:20 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2017 10:58 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 13 of 114 (804830)
04-13-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
04-13-2017 10:20 AM


Re: Verry Good Percy,
Percy says or evolutionists say ....Evolution is a theory of biology, not physics, and has no comment on the Big Bang or the origin of the laws of the universe. " So according to Percy evolutionists can have no opinion as they say, there is no connection between evolution or the origins of life with the creation of elements and laws at the start of Creation with the Big Bang Explosion. Shucks there goes the debate according to Percy, but at least he is being rational and stating the evolution theory, that does state that it has no answers to the creation of life. Their theory is that a Big Bang Explosion caused the laws of the Universe, and then their theory states that by chance or luck thereafter, maybe an eon or two chemicals just magically created life. Fair enough summation from an evolutionary standpoint. Many Thanks Percy..... much appreciated again for your honesty. It makes no sense, but good on ya for presenting the evolutionary theory.

"We don't know the degree of determinism regarding the Big Bang." I agree evolutionists do not know and have no answer for amazing laws and chemicals that just so called happened to be created with a magic Big Bang Explosion. AGREED

But I like Percy's method of posting, sweet clear and distinct, or should we say EXACT.... it may be exactly wrong but its at least a good summation and honest summation of evolutionary theory.
Again Thanks....

But Herein in his directness, Percy says to my reply, that evolution is by lucky mutations

"That would be incorrect. Mutations are random, selection is not."

So again Percy admits that evolution is sheerly by luck and chance. We have CONFIRMATION AGAIN. But following Percy states that selection is not by lucky chance, it is the deciding factor or words to that effect, or that it is the intelligence that selects.

Well first, this assumes there is such a thing as a magical lucky mutation or roll of the dice that actually benefits an organism. Secondly, if this magically produced mutation actually works then it proves that selection is not at random.

IE If it exists, then selection must have selected it. Sorry that makes no sense, selection is an intelligent selecting device. Conditions and or envirorment do not select from all the mutations that misread the previous DNA code and make a determination of who lives and who dies.

If something exists does not make selection, a divine force or shall we say 'Not at random like mutations are proven to be.

TWO randoms do not make evolutionary design or evolutionary sense or evolutionary change. The envirorment or life itself is not a magic selector.

To exist, intelligence has to come from an intelligent non random source.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 10:20 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 11:52 AM Davidjay has responded
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 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-13-2017 1:09 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 14 of 114 (804831)
04-13-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Adequate
04-13-2017 10:58 AM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Do explain adequately, Dr. Adequate how the Big Bang explosion was directed in its explosion... or was not an explosion.

Was it a nice quiet bang, was it an organized focused designed bang by Mother Nature in outer space ?

I am very interested in your statement that the Big Bang was not an explosion.

Do explain yourself adequately.

And do see if you can get other evolutionists to agree with you.

Ask Percy, I would think he would disagree with you.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2017 10:58 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-13-2017 11:34 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 11:58 AM Davidjay has responded
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 15 of 114 (804832)
04-13-2017 11:34 AM


Percy, there were no laws before the Big Bang ?
According to you Percy, the Big Bang created the laws of the Universe.

Then logically, there were no laws before the Big Bang. Right or Wrong.

If wrong, and if in your opinion there were laws before the Big Bang, and then the Big Bang made some more laws, then new laws would have been created afterwards.... and you could state that laws evolved in your theory.

What say ye, or what theorize ye ?

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 12:05 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 28 of 114 (804939)
04-14-2017 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
04-13-2017 11:52 AM


Re: Evolution doesnt deal with origins of laws or life !
Selection ONLY works if there is a magic beneficial mutation.

It is therefore totally null and void if there is not amazing enough shakes of the dice, with tranistion phases of no help retained after one mutation to another. Hence, in adding to your impossible probability of supposed beneficial minor changes, a whole system change or organ change, etc etc would take the retension of mutations that are not signifcant nor selected magically even though being valueless, to all add up eventually to a signifcant so called beneficial mutation change. An absolute miracle by any standard. And without even viable transition species that failed in their organ mutational so called change again, no evidence exists of these magical random beneficial changes, that so called evolved living organisms.

But let me get back to the TOPIC, its laws. And honest Percy admits evolution hasn;t a clue about the origin of life, nor about what or who created the laws.

Hence I would suggest, He is RIGHT evolution doesnt have anything to do with the origins of life, or the origins of the laws of life and non life.

Consequently all evolutionists can honestly say HERE is that , they have no idea. To this I agree 100 percent


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 11:52 AM Percy has responded

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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 29 of 114 (804940)
04-14-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
04-13-2017 1:09 PM


Re: Very Poor Cats Eye
God is ETERNAL, God or if you like Jesus was the ALPHA and OMEGA, and as He said always was.

Remember He created time (SEE just started Light Speed Years, or Daniel 9, or 1000 Years or Genesis 1, etc etc..)

Beyond light speed, there is no time but only the ETERNAL NOW.

Thats math, thats physics, thats the truth.

The Lord always was, He is the originator, and originated.

Evolution as Percy says has no idea when life was created or when much less why.

Back to the topic and showing that laws were created at one time, by the Lord, the Creator as evolutionists are admitting that evolution has nothing to say about the origins of life or the origins of the laws.

They can theorise if they choose, but they if consistent with their wild unproven theory, should only say, its all by chance, and most likely hapened or evolved step by step with each successive law, being selected by a mutational law change, until magically all laws balanced out and made life viable all by chance.

It looks like we have a winner.

Laws do not evolve !! And did not evolve .


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-13-2017 1:09 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-14-2017 12:05 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 35 of 114 (805013)
04-15-2017 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
04-14-2017 12:05 PM


Re: Cats Eye Admits Evolution is only a theory in Biology
HereIN on this thread, we have consistently heard from evolutionists who say their evolutionary theory has no basis in any other field of science. They say their theory only involves what is already alive and kicking, and has nothing to do with the oringinal creation, just the manipulation of that creation by luck and chance.

But now Cats Eye is telling us a new supposed fact about evolution..... and this TOPIC about Laws of the UNIVERSE

"You are seriously confused; Evolution is a theory in Biology. Its processes don't really get applied to Astrophysics.

It's pretty dumb to talk about physical laws evolving according the the Theory of Evolution.

And also, the laws of nature are static, not changing. So of course they don't "evolve".

And, they exist at all points in time - so they didn't come from anything.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read it again, because evolutionists just say, laws were just magically there from the BEGINNING. They have never evolved, just poof BANG in some mysterious past time when there was no time, they just are.

Thats OK, as they are entitled to their religion, for they cant explain the laws nor the origin of life, nor know how everything in life fits together. They have no credability outside the halls of evolutionary theory. They plead ignorance in other fields of science. I agree, they dont know.

The laws to them just found stability through I quess luck and chance. The Universe's homeostasis, just is.... as you can almost hear them

Ummmmmmmmmm .......Ummmmmmmmm........

OK I have proven my point, evolutionists dont know about the laws of the Universe or how they came about so luckily by so called accident, they only know about the so called lucky balance and homeostasis of living things that came about by accident and mistake and of course LUCK.

I or we can refer to this lack of knowledge or laws by evolutionists in future posts

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-14-2017 12:05 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 43 of 114 (805286)
04-17-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Percy
04-13-2017 11:58 AM


Re:The Big Bang was slow expansion, JOKE
Watch this brethren, The double speak of evolutionists has hit an all time HIGH in ridicuolousness, as they now say, the Big Bang was not an explosion but an inflation, and expansion, organized and nice that just happened to create life. This is double speak and evasive and ridiculous.

The Big Bang, the term originating as one of ridicule by Fred Hoyle, was not an explosion but a very rapid expansion, especially the period of inflation. (Hoyle preferred a steady state theory of the universe.)

--Percy End of Percy's quote)

No they actually do believe this hocus pocus of expansion or inflation. It wasnt uncontrolled and random, but a nice slow inflation, expansion.

That brethren is total linguistic double speak, to make their origins of life, seem rational and believeable for their desperate authors of their desperate made up faith.

So do also notice, that the same principle of luck permeates cosmotology so that evolutionists do have links to other theoretical non scientists. In other words they have sister churches in different branches of the FAITH. What is their faith in... LUCK. A lucky slow expansion inflation caused by they not not what, but it wasn't a BIG Bang, it was a slow controled Bang --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its laughable, but its only because evolutionists have never thought through their disjointed theory of LUCK and CHANCE, and so want to make it sound scientific. But they again fail....


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 11:58 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-17-2017 10:52 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 47 of 114 (805294)
04-17-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Diomedes
04-17-2017 10:09 AM


Re: Evolution doesnt deal with origins of laws or life !
Evolutionists also have double speak in suggesting that SELECTION is their God of CHOICE, that uses its divine choice in picking the right mutation for the right environment.

So lets discuss this God of Choice called SELECTION in a new Proposed Topic.... as it is the supposed non random diety that picks among the mistakes which mistakes will survive and flourish and recreate a Kind or Species to give it new life.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Diomedes, posted 04-17-2017 10:09 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 70 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2017 3:54 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 59 of 114 (805545)
04-19-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
04-18-2017 12:18 PM


Conifrmed...Laws were not by chance
Evolutionists as per usual, speak with forked tongues, as they cant figure out when the laws of the Universe came about, to them the general agreement is that they were just there.

Why because they admit, it makes no sense that they evolved, or have changed with time or conditions, they just are.

In other words, they have always been, and are ETERNAL.

This MYSTERY IS SOLVED, even though it should have been no mystery.

Evolution did not creat any LAWS (it just violates them because it is not science)

This thread can be summarized now, as PROVEN

Laws were created !!


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 04-18-2017 12:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Genomicus, posted 04-19-2017 8:30 AM Davidjay has responded
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 61 of 114 (805548)
04-19-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Genomicus
04-19-2017 8:30 AM


Re: Conifrmed...Laws were not by chance
Yes, Geronimus, its too late, the only thing you can say is WAT.... you can not discuss or argue that laws were created .

Evolution only creates a vacuum in the minds of its believers, nothing more. Evolution did not create any laws.

This thread should be summarized.

Allow me..

Creation created the Laws of the Universe


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Genomicus, posted 04-19-2017 8:30 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

    
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