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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 836 of 1311 (815006)
07-14-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 809 by Dredge
07-13-2017 11:29 PM


Re: define "species"
Dredge writes:
The potential for these "new" colours always existed.
In the same way, the potential for War and Peace exists in the Bible - all of the letters are there. All you need to do is rearrange them. So there's only "micro" difference between them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by Dredge, posted 07-13-2017 11:29 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 856 of 1311 (815113)
07-16-2017 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by Dredge
07-15-2017 7:07 PM


Re: define "species"
Dredge writes:
Why all these extra frets if they're rarely used? The answer is, the "junk" frets (13-20/24) are vestigial; remants of a bygone era - perhaps billions of years ago - when all frets were used equally (not by humans , of course, but by some kind of musical monkey-man).
Again, your task as a creationist is to show that those vestigial frets CAN NOT be used. You need to show that no frets are possible beyond 12.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by Dredge, posted 07-15-2017 7:07 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 864 by Pressie, posted 07-17-2017 7:44 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 866 of 1311 (815189)
07-17-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 864 by Pressie
07-17-2017 7:44 AM


Re: define "species"
Pressie writes:
ringo, creationists are trained to think that the term vestigial is a synonym for the word 'useless'.
Creationists need re-training in a lot of areas. Lack of training is what makes them creationists.
Vestigial refers to the loss of a former use. It doesn't necessarily mean there is no current use. For example, wagon wheels have a use are lawn ornaments but they've lost their former use as wagon wheels.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed attribution.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 926 of 1311 (815369)
07-19-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 901 by Dredge
07-18-2017 10:18 PM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
It's my understanding that if there is enough evidence to support a hypothesis, it gets promoted to a theory.
That's kinda like saying a brick gets promoted to a house. What really happens is that a hypothesis is tested; if it fails the test it's discarded, like a damaged brick. But if it passes the test it becomes a brick in the wall, a plank in the theory. The testing tends to spawn new hypotheses which are tested and discarded or added to the wall. Eventually, you get a house (theory).
So common descent is just another brick in the wall. Even without it, there would still be a wall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 10:18 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 927 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2017 3:36 PM ringo has replied
 Message 929 by dwise1, posted 07-19-2017 3:45 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 928 of 1311 (815372)
07-19-2017 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 927 by NosyNed
07-19-2017 3:36 PM


Re: Hypotheory
NosyNed writes:
I agree with Dredge on this. At least as I've always used it a hypothesis may not be "smaller" than a theory, just less well founded.
A theory, specifically one like evolution, is not based on one hypothesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 927 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2017 3:36 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 930 by Taq, posted 07-19-2017 4:40 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 986 of 1311 (815593)
07-21-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 968 by CRR
07-21-2017 4:15 AM


Re: Let's call this the Genesis 2:7 message
CRR writes:
Dead matter can't produce life.
Humans can't produce life from dead matter.
Matter isn't dead. Some matter isn't alive and never was - e.g. an iron bar. Some matter is alive - e.g. a squirrel. Some matter used to be alive - e.g. a corpse. The corpse is dead but the matter isn't.
There's no fundamental difference between the matter in a living thing and the matter in a non-living thing. Life is just a different set of chemical reactions.
And it isn't even all that easy to tell whether something is alive or not. It's a fuzzy line.
So it's rather silly to proclaim that matter can't make a certain change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 968 by CRR, posted 07-21-2017 4:15 AM CRR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 1019 of 1311 (815711)
07-23-2017 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1007 by Dredge
07-23-2017 4:59 AM


Re: Let's call this the Genesis 2:7 message
Dredge writes:
Firstly, the fact that you consider it possible that science could one day produce life from dead matter says a lot about your grip on reality.
The fact that you hand-wave it says a lot about your grip on chemistry.
Again. Non-living matter is not dead. The only difference between living and non-living is chemistry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1007 by Dredge, posted 07-23-2017 4:59 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1020 of 1311 (815712)
07-23-2017 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1013 by Phat
07-23-2017 8:13 AM


Re: Let's call this the Genesis 2:7 message
Phat writes:
Science, done properly, is never wrong as far as we can tell.
Sure it is. The young-earthers will tell you that science keeps changing the age of the earth. It's getting closer and closer to the "right" answer but it has to get a lot of "wrong" answers along the way. The best that science can ever do is the current best estimate of "right".

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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1047 of 1311 (815778)
07-24-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1034 by Dredge
07-24-2017 2:25 AM


Re: Let's call this the Genesis 2:7 message
Dredge writes:
No one knows what happened billions of years ago.
So you reject astronomy too? Because what astronomers are seeing today is what happened a long time ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1034 by Dredge, posted 07-24-2017 2:25 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1074 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2017 2:04 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1065 of 1311 (815849)
07-25-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1057 by CRR
07-24-2017 11:53 PM


Re: Self replicating molecule
CRR writes:
I.e it is a step towards but not an example of a self replicating molecule. Neither is it spontaneous polermization as the video claimed since it required a carefully constructed template.
Both are a demonstration that the chemistry is possible.
You guys keep saying it's impossible. Then every time they demonstrate a step you say, "No wait, it's the next step." Then when that step is demonstrated you say, "No wait, it's the next step after that." After being wrong step after step, maybe it's time to reconsider your conclusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1057 by CRR, posted 07-24-2017 11:53 PM CRR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1066 of 1311 (815850)
07-25-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1059 by Dredge
07-25-2017 2:35 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
It's a bit like asking, why did God make the sky blue and grass green?
Science knows the answer to both of those.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1059 by Dredge, posted 07-25-2017 2:35 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1076 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2017 2:30 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1091 of 1311 (815938)
07-26-2017 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1074 by Dredge
07-26-2017 2:04 AM


Re: Let's call this the Genesis 2:7 message
Dredge writes:
I didn't know astronomy can tell us what happened on earth billions of years ago.
If astronomy can tell us what happened billions of years ago, why can't geology? Why would you reject one and not the other?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1074 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2017 2:04 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1092 of 1311 (815939)
07-26-2017 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1076 by Dredge
07-26-2017 2:30 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
God could make the sky and grass any colour he wants to. Science can't explain why he chose blue and green, respectively.
Science can and does explain why the sky IS blue and the grass IS green. You can put any fairy-tale spin on it that you want but that's not as satisfying as knowing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2017 2:30 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1093 by RAZD, posted 07-26-2017 3:22 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1102 by Dredge, posted 07-28-2017 1:33 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1100 of 1311 (815989)
07-27-2017 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by Dredge
07-27-2017 2:32 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Dredge writes:
If silently, how does that work?
Figures of speech are habitually silent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 07-27-2017 2:32 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1121 of 1311 (816052)
07-28-2017 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by Dredge
07-28-2017 1:33 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
Explaining "how" is not explaining "why".
You can no more explain "why" God did something than science can. "How" is certainly a step above no explanation at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by Dredge, posted 07-28-2017 1:33 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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