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Author | Topic: Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Microevolution allows you to explore the limits of the available gene pool; but beyond that you need macroevolution. Microevolution + Time ≠ Macroevolution. But you are forgetting (or ignoring) the effects of mutation and selection. And both the genetic and fossil records show changes over large stretches of time that qualify as macroevolution, although they were the result of many small changes (small steps).Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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If mutation adds statistically significant amounts of functional information then it is macroevolution. Microevolution does not add statistically significant amounts of functional information. But you have to consider the time periods involved. YECs tend to underestimate just how long a few million years can be, and the changes that can occur during that time. If you have a few thousand microevolutionary steps over a couple of million years, and if you compare the first and last critters the differences could certainly be called macroevolution--though we don't tend to use that term as much as creationists do.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I've proved the Flood hundreds of times on other issues anyway. Your "proofs" have all been disproved. You just can't accept the evidence provided by the real world. Perhaps you should stick to the Faith and Belief threads, as you are committed to ignoring scientific evidence when it disproves your religious beliefs?????Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
But life on earth is only 5778 years old... That is a YEC belief, one which is not supported by evidence. See RAZD's threads on dating for the details.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Scientific theories (and data) must be susceptible to falsification.
If it is claimed that certain theories and data can't be falsified, then that's not science. Its that simple.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Please edit.
That was not my comment.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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But there are other arguments that evolutionists make that I can't enter into, as I don't have the expertise to understand the argument and hence, make a judgement. There are a lot of scientists in each of those fields who do understand the argument, the data, the theory and the scientific method. They can make a judgement.
But having come to the conclusion that ToE is the greatest fraud in the history of science, I strongly suspect that all their arguments are flawed - but I can't prove it. Neither can any other creationist. That's why they quote-mine, misrepresent, deny, ignore, and otherwise avoid dealing with the evidence. For example, I've brought up the dating issue on many of these threads. The dating evidence alone destroys the YEC claims and the idea of a global flood ca. 4350 years ago. RAZD has gone to great lengths in his dating threads showing how all the different dating methods agree with close tolerances. But as of yet no creationist has been able to do anything but try and hand-wave all that evidence away. (It hasn't gone away.)Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Slight thread title change:
Nothing in biology (or any other science) makes sense in the light of creationism Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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You should also look at all of the religious mythology that has been disproved by modern science.
The young earth and a global flood during historic times are two examples. Except that creationists don't accept the results of modern science when those results disprove their beliefs. Instead, they do their best to discredit or destroy those sciences. So yes, nothing in biology (or science) makes sense in the light of creationism. Creationism is anti-science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I have studied evolution a long time, learned a lot about it, and it is very much like a religion in that it is unprovable by definition. We can only assume that the organisms who survived where the most evolved, we can never prove this. RAZD commented on your lack of education in science. This post you made confirms it. Nothing in science is "proved" and those who expect proof are clearly unfamiliar with how science and scientific theories operate. Here are some definitions which may help in your studies: Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses. Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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So you agree that evolution cannot be proved to be true? You are compounding your mistake. The facts of evolution are proved. The theory of evolution is the single best explanation for that given set of facts. And theories are never proved, but rather supported or disproved. If you had read my definitions instead of looking for a cheap "gotcha" you might have learned something.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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But since a human is more functionally complex than a chimp, it stands to reason that building a human would require more genetic information that building a chimp. But chimps can do a lot of things humans can't, so there is more "genetic information" around there somewhere to account for those functions. Your job is to quantify "genetic information" in some manner that accounts for both differences and similarities, and produces a reliable total that can be cross-compared.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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What can chimps do that humans can't? My fragile, egg-shell mind can't think of anything. Short term memory:Chimps Have Better Short-term Memory Than Humans | Live Science Strategic reasoning:Chimps Are Better at Strategic Reasoning Than Humans Are Strength and speed:Chimpanzees vs. Humans: Sizing Up Their Strength - ABC News Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
...many cultures in the ancient Middle East owe their folklore to the Bible and Hebrew folklore, not the other way around. Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia Garden of Eden Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Its an interesting question--why do creationists so often want to meddle in science and quibble about definitions?
Its certainly not to benefit science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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