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Author Topic:   Will Trump fail to build "The Wall" if all 7 border Republican Reps oppose funding?
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1 of 53 (807109)
04-30-2017 10:18 PM


Trump started his presidency with a nation strongly opposed to his immigration policy (upwards of 80% support a pathway to citizenship as opposed to deportation while exit polls showed that 54% of American voters opposed The Wall) but it remains to be seen if the Senate and House Republicans stick with their voting constituents which will in effect cause the respective members to oppose President Trump.

From the conservative Wall Street Journal, April 22-23, 2017, Border Lawmakers Balk Over Wall Request, by Laura Meckler and Kristina Peterson, with Peter Nicholas contribution to article.

quote:

WASHINGTON--Not a single member of Congress who represents the territory on the southwest border said they support President Donald Trump's request for $1.4 billion to begin construction of his promised wall...
....
In the Senate, none of the four Republican's representing border states have expressed support for the project as conceived by Mr. Trump.


The list of opponents includes Reps Steven Pearce (New Mexico ), Will Heard (Texas), and Martha McSally (Arizona ).

Trump lost some once safe districts in non border parts of Texas like the Pete Sessions (Dallas ) and John Culberson (Houston) seats.

Democratic opposition is unanimous in both houses of Congress.

Trump might shift his focus against trade as opposed to immigration. He has went all out this past week against South Korea and it wasn't only his desire to trash their recent and historic trade deal.

(he deployed the Thaad missile system against the wishes of South Korea ( in South Korea! ) and then added that THEY should pay for it, and that was alongside his threats to start a war between not only the United States and North Korea but one that would make South Korea an aggressor since we have thousands of our troops parked along the border lines on the South Korean side. God help the South Koreans if their May 9 election doesn't have the effect of bringing in a new President that doesn't have the backbone to kick out/remove our crazy and ever increasingly bellicose presence from their country )

Trump seems ready to rip up NAFTA

We recently called Canada a "bad neighbor" because they sell us low cost lumber.

I suppose that there will be anger at China for helping to make solar panels for so cheap that now most of the price of solar panel purchases could now be installation costs (nevermind that this means that most consumer dollars might now go to funding U. S. jobs when a panel is purchased and nevermind that the 30% lower panel prices means that thousands of consumer dollars can then be spent on other American provided services )

But what about this anti-immigration election card and specifically what do you think about the actual policy reality with regards to how much of the xenophobic idea actually ends up being translated into actual (llegislated and signed ) law?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-30-2017 11:30 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 6 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 7:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 53 (807117)
05-01-2017 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
04-30-2017 11:30 PM


Re: Trumpapalooza
The Philippine leader is the most interesting thing I have seen in a while due to his insistence toward totally contrary views with regards to our foreign policy elite including the entire U. S. news media.

He says China is a friend and the United States is the enemy.

Not what we have been told.

Not what we have been told.

The candidate Trump seems to be the same man who as President would want to meet the Philipino leader.

But is President Trump the same thing as candidate Trump?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-30-2017 11:30 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 05-01-2017 12:20 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 23 of 53 (807256)
05-01-2017 8:30 PM


Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
I put in some key words into google and the state of Arizona came out ontop so let us start there.

www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/arizona/president

Now Arizona is not quite your typical state as whites have a history of voting more Democratic than the national average plus it is a highly educated voting electorate.

To see the other states click on "Arizona" box (furthest left box out of 3 beside each other ) which is beside "President " box (middle box) and further right is "search by keyword " box. The other states can then be selected. The box is just above the bold black line Arizona President which is right above the exit polls data.

The first set of data shows that Trump won the Arizona male vote 53% to 40% but lost females 49% to 45%.

Since the data show that females were 51% of all voters in Arizona then that translates to a 4% Trump win according to the exit polls.

Trump actually won by 3.5% so these exit polls were pretty close (as they typically are infact quite accurate ).

Notice that the polls show 51% of Arizona voters opposed the wall while 45% supported.

Both GOP Senators oppose the wall as do the 2 Texas Senators.

( also 76% opposed deportation and only 18% supported )

Check it out!


Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-01-2017 9:04 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 26 of 53 (807266)
05-01-2017 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by New Cat's Eye
05-01-2017 9:04 PM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
Have you been following the discussion?

Faith figured out that someone has views (relative to what one assumes that the American people think about The Wall) greatly at odds with the actual factual situation.

They find it hard to believe that 54% of American voters opposed The Wall.

The data tell us one thing (as I showed) but Faith feels that logic alone contradicts the Exit Polls.

The logic is that since Trump is President then the voters simply must agree with him when he proposed The Wall.

I would respond with a point that he only got 46.1% of the vote so 54% opposing his candidacy would be 100% consistent with the same 54% that opposed The Wall.

You ask what you can do with the data from Arizona. The exit polling data show us not only what the actual voters thought about the specific immigration/The Wall policies, but also which candidates the specific voters (specific to their support or opposition of specific immigration policy including The Wall )supported and it goes into archaeological detail.

Also be aware that 51% opposed The Wall in Arizona which happened to match the percentage of voters who voted against Trump.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-01-2017 9:04 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-02-2017 11:21 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 36 of 53 (807385)
05-02-2017 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
05-02-2017 11:21 AM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
quote:

Exit Polls don't tell you the factual situation on what Americans in general think. They tell you what Americans who answer Exit Polls think.

Trump supporters aren't the Exit-Poll type, so I would expect the results to be skewed.


That is indeed the unscientific claim we hear often and I honestly think that you are just teeing up an examination as opposed to expressing your actual conclusion.

Let's put this hypothesis to the test.

Faith, Marc, CatSci, etc. might very well share the same views (assuming Faith hasn't drunk the "Rapture Me Now " fruit punch, and is still with us ) so I suggest we look at the data for each and every state that exit polling data was collected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-02-2017 11:21 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 37 of 53 (807386)
05-02-2017 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by LamarkNewAge
05-02-2017 8:40 PM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
Hypothesis Number One

Donald J. Trump has voters that generally refuse to speak to Exit Poll questioners so they get left out from the surveys and thus the field data for the Exit Polls are wrong and thus the networks place weight on misleading and flat out wrong voter turnout opinion.

The final vote talley will be different from what the Exit Polls showed voters opposed and/or supported and Donald Trump will generally perform better in the actual vote on election day than the election day exit polls showed.

(I personally think this hypothesis will be null once we look at all the states data )


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-02-2017 8:40 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 40 of 53 (807394)
05-02-2017 10:09 PM


Actually we can cover lots of bogus "theories" in this thread.
One so-called theory (which IMO completely skipped the hypothesis staging ground ) is this idea that immigrants committed lots of murders and so many that we should really be scared.

I take this personally since I was born in a city where fully a third are immigrants and a full majority are the children of at least one parent born outside the United States.

We should know that cancer kills 600,000 Americans a year and when you add heart disease to the fatalities, you get 1 million deaths a year in this country from just those 2 diseases.

We know that homicide is a tiny percentage of unnatural deaths per year in this country ( or we should ).

We also should understand that the 9,000 murdered individuals per year in this country is not only an insignificantly miniscule number of deaths (with a super duper low percentage of overall deaths ) but actually they amount to a murder rate per capita that is lower than anytime in any of our lives.

But to the extent that murders being front page news in the Christian Right catering news world ( in America ) is the rule, then I challenge the right wing propagandists to demonstrate that the proportional murder rate from immigrants is higher than the percentage of the immigrant population.

We know that immigrants are a young population group ( and most murders are generally committed by the younger age folk ) but is that even enough to cause us to be able to accurately accuse the immigrants of having a higher murder rate than the overall population?

I personally think immigrants committed so few murders that you will need a microscope to see any real noteworthy homicide numbers.

But let us not be swayed by the personal opinions of anybody.

Immigration critics can make their case once or never?

So far, it is never or at least not yet.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 42 of 53 (807399)
05-03-2017 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by NoNukes
05-02-2017 11:53 PM


On the issue of Faith and what she feels about the future.
Honestly, I think she has been mislead, and she really "hates" a media manufactured version of American history and America today.

We have been tricked into thinking that the historic 1965 immigration laws have led to increased murder rates.

That is distortion enough but the daily media presentation of a never ending blood letting has caused Faith ( and others ) to feel like the murder rate is not only higher than the good old days of the early 60s but even much higher.

Throw in the anti immigration propaganda campaign and then you will in turn have many millions who feel like immigrants have caused the (supposed ) bloody 2010s murder rate to skyrocket to is enormous per capita rate we "suffer from " today.

Faith and Marc9000 are here for clarity and answers.

They sincerely are looking for an obvious path that will efficiently lead us to a better tomorrow.

They don't know that the supposed problem of high murder rates and dangerous immigrants are a con job that they innocently swallowed.

They are innocent IMO.

They honestly bought the lie and simply failed to detect it.

They aren't motivated by genuine hate, but a desire to make for a more peaceful world.

They have bought into lies and it is difficult to accept that those who you have trusted to give you the most "straight scoop", on what troubles us in this admittedly painful world , are part of the problems in this house we all share - Earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2017 11:53 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2017 4:28 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 46 of 53 (807451)
05-03-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by NoNukes
05-03-2017 4:28 AM


Re: On the issue of Faith and what she feels about the future.
I was commenting on the immigration issue.

Marc said that Democrats were more moral during the upheavals of the 50s and 60s.

Faith said that she hates the immigration views of people here.

Those were my response issues.


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 Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2017 4:28 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
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